Houston compared to Raleigh (Cary: housing, condo, rent)

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by Dire Wolf

I probably tell you to get a car. Seriously. Or at least a moped.

Chances are, if you don't have a car, you aren't looking at buying a place to live. There are lots of apartments close to RTP and close to Downtown. Close enough that buses, biking, walking are all options.

If you are the type of person who simply does not want a car, then the Triangle may not be for you.

Thanks for confirming my point.

Not everyone wants to own a car. It is a hassle.

Your state will never wean you from your cars because they are too dependent on taxes from them.

Understand that everyone is piling in from north and west and even ones who did not drive before are buying cars....you really expect traffic to remain as manageable as everyone says it is? "But it's manageable now..." OK, I get it. But we're not talking about a week's stay here. If you're talking about relocating then more than likely you expect to be there for the future and whatever it brings.

Many people I see on here are trying to build the biggest house and get the best price per square foot. Where they live in relation to their jobs seems mostly secondary. Everyone wants to know how far they can live from their jobs and still keep it manageable. As soon as people find out how far they can get from RTP and stay within 30 minutes, those areas crowd and it starts taking you 40 minutes instead unless you're the first in the neighborhood to leave. Which just makes rush hour start earlier because everyone will try to beat the crowd. This is exactly how we developed the extended rush hour you see when you come to Houston.

[Claire_F]

Originally Posted by jfre81

The other difference of Houston is that is it easier to live closer to where you work - nobody does this in the Triangle.

That is a complete falsehood. My husband works 7 miles from our home. My boss lives 2 miles from our office. One coworker rides his bike or walks to work, and another lives just a couple of miles away, and can take the bus if he chooses. Considering I only have two other coworkers, that makes 50% of our office who lives close to work.

There's a huge residential building boom in downtown Raleigh - a tremendous number of condos, as well as a lot of new apartments. North Hills recently renovated their mall, and it's gorgeous. There are loads of new condos in that area, too, and more to come. People are buying a lot of the old houses in the downtown area, renovating them, and either living in them, renting them, or selling them. There are plenty of opportunities to live close to your work, and many people are doing just that.

Originally Posted by jfre81

Bottom line - I know Houston - I do not know the Triangle - it's great in Raleigh as long as nothing bad happens on the roads (i.e. accidents) which will increase just like the crime and insurance rates as the population rises.

It's been pretty obvious that you don't know the Triangle - so why do you continue to make statements that aren't true about this area?

I would daresay that traffic in even the greatest locations would become bad in the event of an accident. That's a no-brainer. There are alternate routes in the area. You have to take the time to learn the area, which you weren't here long enough to do.

Originally Posted by jfre81

I don't think Raleigh is any longer a good escape from the problems of the big city, because it is quickly turning into one. <snip> For as much traffic as I hit, and as much sitting as I did, I felt I might as well be in a larger city with more to offer.

Raleigh is still 1/4 the size of Houston. I don't see the population quadrupling in the next couple of years. As far as the amount of time you say you spent sitting in traffic, that was 100% voluntary, as you're fond of saying. You could have researched alternate routes (they do exist), changed your commute time, or moved closer to work.

Originally Posted by jfre81

Anyone who works downtown or at the Texas Medical Center in Houston can pull off car-free living here and the traffic becomes everyone else's problem. It's thereif you want it and you are looking for it. Driving out from the suburbs and fighting traffic is 100 percent voluntary here.

It's not 100% voluntary in Houston. There are 3.8 million people in Houston. Can you honestly say there are jobs downtown or the Medical Center for every working person living in Harris County? Is there adequate housing for that many people in the area? Of course not.

I know you're a big fan of light rail, and yes, it's a good thing. It's also something Houston didn't plan for or utilize very well. Blame Tom Delay if you want, and that may be accurate. It still doesn't change the fact that instead of utilizing miles of existing track along I-10, they decided to build a 24-lane monstrosity of a freeway to hold even more cars.

I'd rather sit in traffic in a beautiful, tree-filled city than sit in traffic in a concrete jungle full of billboards any old day.

I know you asked me to try not to get defensive (which I found particularly condescending). You also said that you would try not to get offensive. However, I find it pretty offensive when someone continuously states inaccurate information to put down my home.

[IdaClaire]

Originally Posted by jfre81

It's very broad. Such as "Houston has lots of traffic." If you are not driving, though and you are using mass transit instead, does it matter?

My question still goes unanswered: where would you tell me to live if I did not have a car? What if I worked in RTP? Let's say I make $50K/yr there. Or let's say I make $45K working downtown? Where do you tell me to go? Play real estate agent for a minute.

I can tell you several places to go....in Houston, not Raleigh.

Well, the TTA does have some routes that run to RTP. Duke, UNC and NC State. I would say that if you lived in Chapel Hill, you could probably hop a TTA bus, but you'd have to hop a free Chapel Hill bus to get to the TTA stop. I know some folks who walk to a bus stop in Durham and take it to NC State, and if you live in Chapel Hill and work at UNC, you're pretty well set, as there is a great free bus system there.

That said, as much as I love the Triangle area, the lack of public transportation is the one thing I would change.

I am actually planning a move to Carrboro to take advantage of the public transportation system there. We've looked at several neighborhoods that are within walking distance of a bus stop. My husband could actually walk to work from the neighborhoods we're checking out, and I could take a free bus to the TTA. It ain't easy, I tell you...

We had a long checklist of the qualities we sought in the place in which we chose to settle down. Not one of the cities we checked out had every single item on our list to our satisfaction. Of the areas that had MOST of the qualities we listed, the Triangle had an advantage as we were already living here, had a lot of contacts, and the job offers came immediately. Whenever I travel to DC, I envy the public transportation system so much, but I realize that my NC dollars would buy a chicken coop in DC. And Houston is just TOO hot for me. Sorry! If I moved, it would be northward. Before I lived here, I lived in Montana and Vermont, and while I am from the South, my blood has thickened or something. This week, I'm dying.

While this area is indeed very family-oriented, there's still a lot to offer for people without children, as well as older people. My 74-year-old mother moved here last year. She's been a widow for four years now, and my husband and I were the only people she knew when she moved here. However, she's gotten involved in several organizations, including a couple of groups she found on meetups.com. She now has lots of friends and activities, and actually had to cut back, because she was getting too busy! She has more of a social life here than I do.

I would definitely agree on the part about older people. My mother retired here and loves it! There are so many people retiring here and there's always something to do.

[Dire Wolf]

I have a coworker who rides his bike to a TTA stop near his home in Apex, puts the bike on the bus, and then rides from the TTA station to work (which is not far). Takes a fair amount of planning due to the bus schedules, but that is a factor of demand. There just isn't the demand for ridership here. There is plenty of room for these bus services to grow if demand ever picks up. And the cost to expand is not too bad. Worst case is a new bus and a new driver to hire.

Spending a ton of money on a light rail system that everyones models admit would be very underutilized just seems like a waste of money give other budgetary challenges. I'm all for a light rail in principal, but when you start looking at the realities, it is hard to justify today. Include the planned route in growth planning. Acquire right of ways, etc where it makes sense. But in terms of a huge outlay of money, how can you do it when it doesn't meet federal guidelines for such a project?

[jfre81]

Once again these are all differences in opinion - however I don't think people really take much thought into just how fast the Triangle is growing and how everyone assumes that the government and the free market are going to make sure everyone gets to work on time consistently and that kids have a desk in a classroom to sit in. (The property taxes here help make sure that happens.)

Here's the deal with the heat - it is what it is. But look - it appears the forecasted high today in Raleigh is 100 degrees. It's August. At this time of the year we're not any worse than the Piedmont. And we're closer to the water so you get more of a breeze moving things around. The air just gets kinda stagnant over Raleigh, even when it's not very humid (48% according to the Weather Channel today).

At this time last year, it was really, really hot in Raleigh. I made a point of comparing the temperatures and humidity. For most of the days in the first half of August it was rather consistently hotter by several degrees in Raleigh than in Houston (I'm assuming RDU vs. IAH) and the humidity was comparable enough to be a push.

Raleigh Weather Forecast and Conditions North Carolina

Houston Weather Forecast and Conditions Texas

Even today there's not a whole lot of difference.

The difference is in the spring and fall. April/May and September/October are the only times I'd trade Raleigh's weather for ours. It's still hot and sticky then while it is quite pleasant in most of NC most of the time.

Then there's the winter. I like an occasional snow but people in the South (combined with transients from every which way) do not drive well in winter weather. The only place I want to deal with that is up where it happens all the time and everyone knows the drill. I'll deal with a foot of snow in Cleveland before I deal with an inch in Raleigh.

It rarely freezes here. Ice on the roads and bridges is very rare, despite signage telling you to beware of it. On the other hand, ice is an annual thing just about in Raleigh. All in all the climate in the Triangle is not very far removed from that of Dallas. You are still in the Sun Belt and it is still hot. In January, you're 27 degrees in Raleigh and I'm going to the grocery store in short sleeves and flipflops. Most of the time, anyway. Our brushes with winter weather are about as rare as hurricanes (another grossly overstated problem about the Houston area that is not necessarily worse than NC, not that people are really saying that). FWIW, Houston has not been hit by a major hurricane since 1983 and it was a notch below Fran.

[jfre81]

Originally Posted by Dire Wolf

Acquire right of ways, etc where it makes sense. But in terms of a huge outlay of money, how can you do it when it doesn't meet federal guidelines for such a project?

You realize that acquiring right-of-ways means massive property value drops in the entire area. People didn't move where they moved to be next to a freeway. So you want a bunch of eminent domain/NIMBY battles going on while the whole place gets more congested in the meantime as everyone arguing?



^-Houston's Gulf Freeway in the 1950s, before it was finished. There used to be houses where that freeway was built through.

I lived part of my time in NC in a house that once say in the I-40 right of way in Johnston County. The government ordered it moved. It has only sat at its current location since 1997 but is >50 years old.

Rail is much less obtrusive than more and bigger highways which will just create more concrete and sprawl.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by jfre81

I don't think people really take much thought into just how fast the Triangle is growing and how everyone assumes that the government and the free market are going to make sure everyone gets to work on time consistently and that kids have a desk in a classroom to sit in.

Oh don't worry about that. Beleive me, there are many people in the Triangle who think about, discuss, lobby, strategize, and plan about the growth issues here in the Triangle everyday. I do not think that this citi-data forum is a very good statistical representation of the varying Triangle Demographics.

We may not have it all worked out yet and maybe we never will ...... but citizens and politicians alike are working on it. Since you don't live here anymore, I am not surprised that you are not aware of these activities, but they are indeed happening on a daily basis. Not everyone in this area is an SUV driving, McMansion Dwelling, Grass Watering, Long Commute Driving, Suburbanite Software Engineer.

There are many different lifestyles to choose from here. Anybody who thinks that the Triangle is only made up of suburbs hasn't really experienced what the area has to offer. And if you are really serious about living here without a car, it can be done whether you work in RTP or Downtown Raleigh or Durham, there are choices for car free living. You might end up renting instead of owning based on your price range, but that is a lifestyle choice as well.

[Dire Wolf]

^I think I lost you on that last post. The general plan with the light rail is to use existing rights of way wherever possible. Most of the acquisition of land is just for future stations. Not sure why that would have a negative effect on property value. If anything, I'd expect the opposite.

[he's so hott]

Originally Posted by jfre81

My question still goes unanswered: where would you tell me to live if I did not have a car? What if I worked in RTP? Let's say I make $50K/yr there. Or let's say I make $45K working downtown? Where do you tell me to go? Play real estate agent for a minute.

I can tell you several places to go....in Houston, not Raleigh.

I'd tell you that if you want to live comfortably and be able to take trips out of state and have fun on the weekends at nice restaurants and clubs or shopping and investing, buying a home on 45k or 50k that isn't out in Clayton or far east Wake County will be impossible to do if you want a good neighborhood and something that is single family. And even far out would be hard to do on those salaries. It ain't happening in SW Durham, North Durham, North Wake County, West Wake nor East Wake. Not happenin. The housing prices in the Triangle are high and a 45k or 50k salary makes it hard to buy a nice place.

[Claire_F]

Originally Posted by jfre81

You realize that acquiring right-of-ways means massive property value drops in the entire area. People didn't move where they moved to be next to a freeway. So you want a bunch of eminent domain/NIMBY battles going on while the whole place gets more congested in the meantime as everyone arguing?

^-Houston's Gulf Freeway in the 1950s, before it was finished. There used to be houses where that freeway was built through.

All of this is the exact same thing that happened when the government acquired the additional land along I-10 in Houston to expand the freeway to 24 lanes. This is something that's only been going on in the last decade.