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My wife and I are planning a move to the Research Triangle in September. I will be working at Duke, and she will be dividing her time between Duke and Apex (probably at least 60 percent Duke). We are 50 years old, have no kids at home, and would ideally like to find a neighborhood with a genuine sense of community. I'm an economist and my wife is a pediatrician. My wife is a Quaker/Buddhist and I'm a Unitarian, although she is much more involved in faith than I am. We're coming from Chicago, and are looking forward to a greater sense of quiet and repose. But I would still be delighted to be able to walk to a neighborhood bar/restaurant (if that's at all reasonable). We would prefer a neighborhood where we could have interesting (my apologies for the vagueness of term, but it's really what I mean) neighbors who would like to stop by for a glass of wine on the front porch but where things feel relatively safe.
For what you're describing, I would consider the neighborhoods around Duke and downtown -- Trinity Park, Watts-Hillandale, Old West Durham, Burch Ave., Old North Durham, Morehead Hill, Forest Hills, Duke Park, and a smattering of others.
Definitely front-porch sitting neighborhoods with strong-knit neighborhood associations (not HOAs, but non-profits dedicated to neighborhood improvement and community events.) In our neighborhood of TP, we have a neighborhood-purchased couple of lots that have become a popular city park with playground equipment, the occasional food truck rodeo and occasional farmers market nights. We're in walking distance to East Campus, Ninth Street, and downtown (which has plenty of restaurants, bars, movies, theater, and our AAA-level minor league Bulls.) Also close to Durham Central Park, its farmers market, and the very popular, and indescribable, Fullsteam Brewery. And most importantly, wonderful neighborhoods and a real sense of community (e.g., tomorrow's neighborhood night out at a Bulls game.)
The other near-downtown neighborhoods have a similar vibe and are more or less close to these and other attractions.
My wife works in RTP right off NC 147, the Durham Freeway; it's not a bad reverse commute, takes her about 15 minutes to get there. With 147 extending down as a toll road to Apex, that could be a short drive depending on where her office is. I work at Duke so of course am the "lucky one" in walking/bus/bike distance to my office downtown. Still, note that there's much more traffic flowing into Durham in the mornings and out of Durham in the afternoons, so you do get a chance to miss the traffic by living in town and driving to Apex, Morrisville, etc.
martino, I think that Bull City Rising's suggestions are excellent, and so would JBenny21's be, too, except that those neighborhoods in the older, inner parts of Raleigh would mean an unnecessarily long commute to Apex and especially to Duke's campuses in Durham. I live in Raleigh, and I love Raleigh, and I think Raleigh is terrific, but I don't see why you'd choose to live there rather than in some of the equally terrific parts of Durham, unless there are other extenuating circumstances. Just out of curiosity, I'm a native Chicagoan as well, so for the sake of comparison, what neighborhood have you been living in there, or what's an example of a part of Chicago to which you'd like to find something comparable here? Perhaps I could help with some compare/contrast between areas in Chicago and areas in the Triangle.
Thank you for these very helpful comments. In response to tompope's first question, we currently live in Andersonville/Edgewater which, along with Lincoln Square, seem like the most appealing Chicago neighborhoods. And, in regard to the 2nd question, definitely Cubs.
yes, though i live in and primarily help folks buy in Wake County and especially downtown Raleigh, moving to raleigh would mean a hella commute to both places every single day.
There are many places in Durham that have become superhot like a 5 Points in Raleigh, and that very soon will give her great access by toll road to Apex when she needs to get there.
Thank you for these very helpful comments. In response to tompope's first question, we currently live in Andersonville/Edgewater which, along with Lincoln Square, seem like the most appealing Chicago neighborhoods. And, in regard to the 2nd question, definitely Cubs.
Thank you to all of you for being so welcoming.
Okay, as a Chicagoan, I'm not sure I'd actually agree with your assessment that Andersonville/Edgewater along with Lincoln Square are "the most appealing Chicago neighborhoods." Personally, there are quite a few neighborhoods in Chicago that I would find more appealing. But it's all a matter of opinion, and for these purposes it doesn't really matter what I think. Andersonville, Edgewater, and Lincoln Square are all popular and perfectly fine neighborhoods, and if those are the kinds of places that appeal to you, that's helpful. Obviously, you won't find any place in the Triangle that's a whole lot like Andersonville or Edgewater, since this is definitely not Chicago. Even the densest, most urban places in Durham or Raleigh are several orders of magnitude less dense and urban than the dense, urban parts of Chicago, including Andersonville and Edgewater. Public transportation here gets a bad rap, but it's not actually quite as bad as it's often made out to be, and it may be getting better at some point soon-ish, especially in Durham. But public transportation here certainly pales in comparison to Chicago, and and the overall vibe and energy of the street life here is extremely quiet and subdued compared to a place like Andersonville or Edgewater. But the Triangle has a lot of other things going for it, and there are some pretty cool places in Durham and the other towns around here that may suit your needs quite well. And if you take the Triangle for what it is rather than fretting about how it compares to Chicago or other bigger cities, I think you'll like it a lot here.
For those who aren't familiar, Andersonville and Edgewater in Chicago definitely constitute one of the more interesting and distinctive parts of the city. It's a part of the city that had long been a working-class ethnic area, gradually becoming run-down through the middle of the 20th century, eventually becoming kind of a semi-ghetto-ish area by the 1970's, although it never underwent the total white-flight, bombed-out urban blight pattern that happened in many other parts of the city. Then in the 1980's and 90's it started gaining interest first among artists and musicians and gays and lesbians and punk rockers and other types perceived as "fringe," which gradually led to increased gentrification and yuppification. But just as the decline was never as complete there as elsewhere in Chicago, the gentrification (so far) hasn't been as total either, so Andersonville and Edgewater still retain a certain amount of their grittiness and edginess from days gone by. The result is kind of a weird mixture of people and development patterns in those areas, and an area that's unusually diverse culturally, racially, and socioeconomically for a generally notoriously segregated Chicago, and yet a place that has a really cool energy and vitality and community feel to it.
So again, there's no place that's exactly like that in the Triangle, but the places that I first thought of when you mentioned Andersonville/Edgewater were some of the ones that Bull City Rising mentioned such as Trinity Park, Duke Park, and Old North Durham. Those seem to me like possibly ideal places for someone like you to begin looking. They're all older neighborhoods just north and northwest of downtown Durham, and they're places with a lot of character and sense of community to them. They'll still feel suburban and laid-back compared to Andersonville or Edgewater, but they have a decent amount of street life, and also a fair amount of urban grit and edginess. In fact, they're the kind of places that may seem a little too gritty to the cul-de-sac and minivan suburban types, but then, so would Andersonville or Edgewater, and they're certainly plenty safe enough for someone like you to live there and enjoy the community as long as you take the most basic commonsense precautions. There's nowhere near as much stuff to walk to there as you had in Andersonville/Edgewater, but there are at least a decent selection of shopping, dining, and entertainment options within walking distance, and that area is generally quite pleasant and pedestrian-friendly (especially compared to most of the rest of the car-centric Triangle area). As Bull City Rising mentioned, all those neighborhoods are extremely convenient to both of Duke's main campuses, and would be a short or even a pleasant commute by bus, car, bicycle, or even on foot. The commute to Apex is longer, but doable, and will get a lot easier within the next few weeks when the new section of NC-540 toll road opens. Her exact commute time would depend on various factors, including what time of day she'd be traveling, and exactly what part of Apex she'd be going to, but it should never be too bad, especially compared to the commutes that many Chicagoland residents endure on a daily basis.
Exactly where, when, and how you should look for your new home may also depend on exactly what you're looking for. Are you intending to rent at first (or permanently), or buy a home? What's your general price range? Are you going to be able to make one or more visits to the area over the next few months to scout ahead and set things up in advance, or are you going to have to just show up in September and figure things out on the fly? These considerations may govern how picky you're able to be, and how carefully you'll be able to select where you want to live. Another thing you'll notice about neighborhoods like these in Durham (and in Raleigh also) compared to ones like Andersonville or Edgewater in Chicago is how small they are. Neighborhoods like Trinity Park and Duke Park are wonderful places, but they're really not very large, and the sheer volume of available housing stock in those areas is simply not very great. So, on any given day, if you're looking for a house—to buy or to rent—in one of those particular areas at a certain price and of a certain size with certain features, it may or may not be available. But if you're flexible, have a generous budget, and can take your time and be patient, you can certainly find a good deal in an area where you'd like to live. It's still a real buyer's market, after all, even though the real estate market in the Triangle hasn't been hit quite as hard as some places in the country, and demand in the desirable older neighborhoods of Durham and Raleigh has remained especially relatively strong.
Anyhow, good luck again. Sorry I can't wish luck to your Cubbies, though. As a lifelong White Sox fan, my second-favorite baseball team is still usually whichever team is playing the Cubs. But my feelings towards the Cubbies have at least softened quite a bit since one of the Chicago teams finally got off the 88-year schneid and won the World Series seven years ago. Who was that again?
Another thing you'll notice about neighborhoods like these in Durham (and in Raleigh also) compared to ones like Andersonville or Edgewater in Chicago is how small they are. Neighborhoods like Trinity Park and Duke Park are wonderful places, but they're really not very large, and the sheer volume of available housing stock in those areas is simply not very great. So, on any given day, if you're looking for a house—to buy or to rent—in one of those particular areas at a certain price and of a certain size with certain features, it may or may not be available. But if you're flexible, have a generous budget, and can take your time and be patient, you can certainly find a good deal in an area where you'd like to live. It's still a real buyer's market, after all, even though the real estate market in the Triangle hasn't been hit quite as hard as some places in the country, and demand in the desirable older neighborhoods of Durham and Raleigh has remained especially relatively strong.
Tom's advice (as always) is very strong and his knowledge of Chicago orders of magnitude better than mine. I would echo in particular his comment about finding housing in one of the in-town neighborhoods in Durham as well as Raleigh -- there is a limited supply and it helps to be connected to what's happening.
Neighborhood listservs in Durham (see durhamhoods.com) are a great way to find listservs in neighborhoods you are targeting; I suspect the same is true in "inside the beltline" Raleigh neighborhoods too. Signing up and monitoring the listserv for for-sale notices, or better, letting folks know you are looking to buy and mentioning your criteria can facilitate finding properties before they're listed.
We've not seen much of a degradation in interest within the "hyperlocal" neighborhood segment immediately around me. We eked out an option on our house almost three years ago while evaluating it for renovation feasibility but there were several backup bidders in the wings if we had fallen through; and earlier this spring, a house across the street from us was listed, shown and off market/under contract within a weekend. In the latter case, a neighbor knew that a professor wanted to move back to our exact street, and when she heard that the house would be listed, he was ready the first day.
Subscribing to listservs and soliciting pre-MLS homes can work for the seller (limiting commission exposures) as well as the buyer (limiting market competition), and frequently homes will exchange hands before hitting the listings.
To the same end, there's a limited set of realtors I would suggest working with for in-town neighborhoods, given how much is word of mouth and outside listing services. DM me if you're interested in some suggestions, as such listings aren't allowed on City-Data's public forums.
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