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Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Cary The Triangle Area
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:58 PM
 
28 posts, read 66,005 times
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Just for a little history I went to high school in Charlotte in the early 90's, then went to a college in the Triangle (See the sig). While in college my family moved out of state so I never really returned to Charlotte. Fast forward to today and I have lived in the Triangle and out of state ever since. Recently I had the opportunity to stay in Charlotte for a few days for work and I was absolutely struck by the stark difference in urban growth and development in Charlotte vs the Triangle. The growth and development of Uptown and now SouthEnd in comparison to downtown Raleigh and Durham is like night and day even though both areas have seen substantial growth over the last decade plus. I'm not trying to have a Charlotte vs Raleigh discussion, rather I'm trying to get an understanding of why an area with so much groth over the last 15 years plus has seen such poor development of it's dowtown and urban core. Why do you think one area has moved so much faster then the other? What has kept this from happening in Raleigh?

I live in Raleigh and will for the foreseeable future, but I would definitely consider myself more of an urban person and I've been very disappointed in the options available to me as a resident.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:37 AM
 
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A few reasons I can think of:

Multiple economic cores in the Triangle rather than a single central downtown.

Absence of a single dominant urban industry to anchor a downtown such as banking in Charlotte.

Some of the largest Triangle employers being government, higher education and healthcare, which tend not to be concentrated in a downtown.

Existence of RTP (and now Centennial Campus as well) as a site of business concentration.

Decision to divert interstate highway away from downtown Raleigh.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Chapelboro
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The lack of light rail is the thing that bugs me the most about the Triangle vs Charlotte.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:43 AM
 
9,848 posts, read 30,286,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHTransplant View Post
A few reasons I can think of:

Multiple economic cores in the Triangle rather than a single central downtown.

Absence of a single dominant urban industry to anchor a downtown such as banking in Charlotte.

Some of the largest Triangle employers being government, higher education and healthcare, which tend not to be concentrated in a downtown.

Existence of RTP (and now Centennial Campus as well) as a site of business concentration.

Decision to divert interstate highway away from downtown Raleigh.
This sums it up quite nicely IMO. Well done!
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:04 AM
 
7,076 posts, read 12,348,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHTransplant View Post
A few reasons I can think of:

Multiple economic cores in the Triangle rather than a single central downtown.

Absence of a single dominant urban industry to anchor a downtown such as banking in Charlotte.

Some of the largest Triangle employers being government, higher education and healthcare, which tend not to be concentrated in a downtown.

Existence of RTP (and now Centennial Campus as well) as a site of business concentration.

Decision to divert interstate highway away from downtown Raleigh.
You nailed it here. However, your last statement has an interesting twist. You'd be surprised at how many folks in Charlotte HATE the downtown area freeway system; to the point of wanting it removed even. I'm not crazy about its design myself, but to remove it? Well, let's just say that me and my urban pals down here don't always agree. With that said, downtown Raleigh does blend in much better with its surrounding neighborhoods than uptown Charlotte does.

In addition to your list, I do believe that mass transit and downtown sporting events play into this equation as well. Just imagine what downtown Raleigh would be like if the Canes and NC State football both played downtown. Imagine what it would be like if every major concert in the Triangle were in downtown Raleigh. Also, what if Raleigh's bus system carried 6 times its current ridership; with 90% of them having to do a downtown transfer. What if Wake Tech's main campus was located in downtown.

IMO Raleigh has the goods, but they are all spread out into different directions. Such a layout makes a rather large city like Raleigh look and feel smaller than it really is. In closing, uptown Charlotte is FAR from being perfect. Both downtowns are by no means finished products.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:21 AM
 
28 posts, read 66,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHTransplant View Post
A few reasons I can think of:

Multiple economic cores in the Triangle rather than a single central downtown.

Absence of a single dominant urban industry to anchor a downtown such as banking in Charlotte.

Some of the largest Triangle employers being government, higher education and healthcare, which tend not to be concentrated in a downtown.

Existence of RTP (and now Centennial Campus as well) as a site of business concentration.

Decision to divert interstate highway away from downtown Raleigh.

There seems to be some development going on now, but not nearly enough. What would have to change to make that happen? I know these things take time, but it seems like there is a lack of vision when it comes to Raleigh's leadership.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UNCJones View Post
I know these things take time, but it seems like there is a lack of vision when it comes to Raleigh's leadership.
That the vision is different than yours doesn't mean that it is lacking.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by UNCJones View Post
There seems to be some development going on now, but not nearly enough. What would have to change to make that happen? I know these things take time, but it seems like there is a lack of vision when it comes to Raleigh's leadership.
There's not really much to be done absent nuking Durham. The Triangle's a multipolar urban area. Think DFW versus Houston. It's not going to grow in the same way Charlotte will. When suburban expansion from both east and west fully takes over Alamance County we'll be talking about the Triangle-Triad metroplex.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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I think it also has something to do with the population.

Charlotte's metro is larger than Raleigh's, but not by much. However, Charlotte is the only "main" city within the metro while Raleigh shares it's name with Durham and Chapel Hill.

Charlotte's downtown development already has a large base. Once Bank of America went up, so did everything else. Not sure why Raleigh's skyscrapers never really exploded.
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:41 PM
 
7,076 posts, read 12,348,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCJones View Post
I know these things take time, but it seems like there is a lack of vision when it comes to Raleigh's leadership.
I wouldn't call it a lack of vision. Downtown Raleigh has moved forward nicely over the last 10-15 years. One thing to note is that Charlotte destroyed its historic downtown in an attempt to build something "new and better". As a result, uptown Charlotte still has SEVERAL blocks of undeveloped surface parking. Charlotte's surface parking is both a curse and a blessing. It's a curse because it makes parts of uptown feel a bit cold, sterile, and undeveloped. It's a blessing in that Charlotte (at any given time) can add a condo/apartment tower, sports complex, urban park etc to its downtown without knocking down a thing. In other words, Charlotte's downtown has more land in which to growth due to surface parking. Downtown Raleigh doesn't have the large areas of surface lots in which to easily grow.

Speaking of surface lots, there are 5 such lots in Charlotte (maybe more) that are about to get highrise apartments, a baseball park, and an urban park. If downtown Raleigh were to do the same, something would need to see the wrecking ball before the downtown area had the availble land for such projects. There are some surface lots in downtown Raleigh, but its not even close to what parts of Charlotte's 3rd ward looks like. It's no surprise that 3rd ward is the area of uptown that is seeing the most development as of late.
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