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Old 05-06-2014, 01:59 PM
 
621 posts, read 794,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky Prof View Post
Sounds like I will have to give these students a reality check when they enter my college classroom. The due date on an assignment is not a suggestion.
You must be kidding. What makes you think these kids are headed to college.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:03 PM
 
621 posts, read 794,356 times
Reputation: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky Prof View Post
You are assuming that the student who did not submit the material actually knows the material. In my experience, this is rarely the case.
Indeed. But its more convenient for those making the argument to do away with zeroes to believe that these truant kids are not lacking in knowledge or intelligence but merely suffer from a phobia to establish better grades and do not want to run the risk of doing well in life.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
553 posts, read 1,077,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger View Post
Well said. There was a recent USA Today article where Colleges were complaining about how a large percentage of Freshman are ill prepared for College work. More dumbing down will only make matters worse. Then companies will want more H1-B visas so they can get the workers with the skills needed.
Exactly. A year ago, I spoke with an employer who told me that if a recent graduate is lacking in a particular skill needed to perform the job, it is easy to get that person up to speed. But, one cannot teach "soft skills" on the job. Employers expect their employees to be on time for work, to have solid oral and written communication skills and to present themselves in a professional manner. Part of my job is to not only teach the subject matter, but to prepare them for the realities of the work world.

I have high expectations of every student. I let them know that each of them has the ability to do well. Grades are earned, not given. You submit crap, you will earn a crap grade. Will I help you with any deficiencies that led to that crap grade? Of course. But, if you are not willing to put in the effort, I cannot help you.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
553 posts, read 1,077,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by local2rtp View Post
Indeed. But its more convenient for those making the argument to do away with zeroes to believe that these truant kids are not lacking in knowledge or intelligence but merely suffer from a phobia to establish better grades and do well in life.
I would submit that it is up to that teacher, instructor or professor to reach out to that student to find out if that is the case. However, that is easier said than done.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
553 posts, read 1,077,641 times
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Originally Posted by local2rtp View Post
You must be kidding. What makes you think these kids are headed to college.
Please, I have the same problem in the college classroom. Where do you think it started?
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:17 PM
 
Location: My House
33,379 posts, read 27,204,418 times
Reputation: 24682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky Prof View Post
Exactly. A year ago, I spoke with an employer who told me that if a recent graduate is lacking in a particular skill needed to perform the job, it is easy to get that person up to speed. But, one cannot teach "soft skills" on the job. Employers expect their employees to be on time for work, to have solid oral and written communication skills and to present themselves in a professional manner. Part of my job is to not only teach the subject matter, but to prepare them for the realities of the work world.

I have high expectations of every student. I let them know that each of them has the ability to do well. Grades are earned, not given. You submit crap, you will earn a crap grade. Will I help you with any deficiencies that led to that crap grade? Of course. But, if you are not willing to put in the effort, I cannot help you.
But, who is checking the schools attended by those H1-B Visa holders to see if they are any better or worse than schools here?

H1-B Visas are for companies to pay lower wages.

It's not that this means those people who have them are not qualified, intelligent people.

Companies do generally pay them less money, or they would never hire and go through all that aggravation.

Similarly qualified local candidates want more money.
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Wake Forest, NY
613 posts, read 617,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
But, who is checking the schools attended by those H1-B Visa holders to see if they are any better or worse than schools here?

H1-B Visas are for companies to pay lower wages.

It's not that this means those people who have them are not qualified, intelligent people.

Companies do generally pay them less money, or they would never hire and go through all that aggravation.

Similarly qualified local candidates want more money.
I am not defending the use of H1-B visas but what you say is not true. The employer must make a good faith effort to hire an American worker and the wage levels are set at a certain level. It usually costs a company more time and money to go through the process. Just the DOL paperwork is enough to put most people off.

Companies and Colleges complain about the low quality of a significant portion of American high school graduates. Foreign workers seem to be providing what we're not.
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: My House
33,379 posts, read 27,204,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger View Post
I am not defending the use of H1-B visas but what you say is not true. The employer must make a good faith effort to hire an American worker and the wage levels are set at a certain level. It usually costs a company more time and money to go through the process. Just the DOL paperwork is enough to put most people off.

Companies and Colleges complain about the low quality of a significant portion of American high school graduates. Foreign workers seem to be providing what we're not.
I just don't buy it. Many foreign workers are very open about their salaries. Salaries have ranges.

My husband works in IT. None of the foreign workers on visas that he encounters make as much as their American counterparts when they start at his company. They tend not to be salary negotiators.

Starting low guarantees you'll stay lower because all raises and bonuses are based on starting pay.


http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/h1b.html

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechcons...ou-Might-Think
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:02 PM
 
Location: My House
33,379 posts, read 27,204,418 times
Reputation: 24682
Also, we have gotten a bit off topic. None of our WCPSS kids are going to be applying for H1-B visas this week.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,535 posts, read 4,527,214 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarky Prof View Post
You are assuming that the student who did not submit the material actually knows the material. In my experience, this is rarely the case.
No, I'm not assuming they know the material. If you use the median rather than the mean to determine the grade it should be apparent if the student doesn't know the material unless the material on some assignments is irrelevant to the rest of the course.
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