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Old 10-31-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: 27609
525 posts, read 1,113,093 times
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I am really torn on this one - I haven't quite made up my mind. On one hand, I hate the idea of NOT punishing a student for not turning in an assignment. It seems borderline ridiculous to receive a 50 on something if you never even turned it in. However, I can also see the argument that if a student makes all B's in a class (for example) but then forgets a single assignment and receives a 0, he or she could potentially fail the entire class. Remember a lot of these kids are as young as 14. Yes, we should be teaching them about the real world and consequences, while also acknowledging that they are still children and not ruin their entire high school transcript over one missed assignment. Perhaps this just exposes a major flaw in the 100 point grading scale and that is the real issue to be looked at.
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Finally in NC
1,337 posts, read 1,791,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
One more addition.

Take for example a course (such as math) that builds upon prior knowledge as you go. In a semester, say there are 15 essential objectives. As the students begins the course, s/he cannot grasp objectives 1 - 3 beyond a 60% level (test score). But as the course progresses, s/he really begins to get objectives 1-3 while they are being used in objectives 5 - 8. At the midterm, s/he scores a, 85% on an exam measuring mastery of objectives 1 - 8. Should the 60% on the first test still count in an average? What does it mean once the student has mastered the concepts?

There seems to be a reaction that students will beat the system and be lazy. That may be true for some, but their grades still won't be passing. Instead I see that students will be encouraged to keep trying, keep working to learn the material because it's never to late for that success to be recognized.
This is the kind of thing teachers see and good ones take into account rather than just average all of the grades. our goal is mastery in the end.

My DD came home yesterday and exclaimed: "I have the best math grading teacher ever! He looks at what we actually did, sees where we went wrong, and gives partial credit if we knew what we were doing but miscalculated or got lost along the way!" (she also said his actual teaching stinks big time). I told her this is how good math teachers grade! It's what I always did and gives a better understanding of what the students actually knows.

Last edited by goodbyesnow; 10-31-2013 at 11:19 AM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-31-2013, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Morrisville, NC
7,691 posts, read 10,062,057 times
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As someone who for the most part, had no issues at all understanding the material and could typically ace my tests, but had one heck of a time turning in homework because evidently I am messed up in the head , this system sure would have helped me I bet!
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: My House
33,055 posts, read 26,861,279 times
Reputation: 24400
Quote:
Originally Posted by roscomac View Post
One more addition.

Take for example a course (such as math) that builds upon prior knowledge as you go. In a semester, say there are 15 essential objectives. As the students begins the course, s/he cannot grasp objectives 1 - 3 beyond a 60% level (test score). But as the course progresses, s/he really begins to get objectives 1-3 while they are being used in objectives 5 - 8. At the midterm, s/he scores a, 85% on an exam measuring mastery of objectives 1 - 8. Should the 60% on the first test still count in an average? What does it mean once the student has mastered the concepts?

There seems to be a reaction that students will beat the system and be lazy. That may be true for some, but their grades still won't be passing. Instead I see that students will be encouraged to keep trying, keep working to learn the material because it's never to late for that success to be recognized.
True... we really should be measuring progress according to what a student has learned based on what he/she already knew. If a teacher is taking in a kid who can already make As on all the tests, that's sort of a pie job, isn't it?
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:02 PM
 
Location: My House
33,055 posts, read 26,861,279 times
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Originally Posted by Sherifftruman View Post
As someone who for the most part, had no issues at all understanding the material and could typically ace my tests, but had one heck of a time turning in homework because evidently I am messed up in the head , this system sure would have helped me I bet!
Oh... I'd have graduated with a 4.0 and some iffy comments under "conduct."

I was the same, really. School wasn't hard for me and I was bored.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:24 PM
 
2,881 posts, read 3,190,354 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boocake View Post
I am really torn on this one - I haven't quite made up my mind. On one hand, I hate the idea of NOT punishing a student for not turning in an assignment. It seems borderline ridiculous to receive a 50 on something if you never even turned it in. However, I can also see the argument that if a student makes all B's in a class (for example) but then forgets a single assignment and receives a 0, he or she could potentially fail the entire class. Remember a lot of these kids are as young as 14. Yes, we should be teaching them about the real world and consequences, while also acknowledging that they are still children and not ruin their entire high school transcript over one missed assignment. Perhaps this just exposes a major flaw in the 100 point grading scale and that is the real issue to be looked at.
It seemed to work itself out when I was in high school.
To me, it is just more coddling of our youth. Actions have consequences. Its never too early to learn that lesson.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: My House
33,055 posts, read 26,861,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
It seemed to work itself out when I was in high school.
To me, it is just more coddling of our youth. Actions have consequences. Its never too early to learn that lesson.
Making a 50 isn't a bad thing? I doubt people who are true slackers will care if it's a zero or a 50. But, the ones who do care and are struggling will appreciate the opportunity to keep their grades from plummeting.

I think it worked ok "back in the day" because there wasn't also the expectation that everyone had to go to college to have any kind of life that didn't include living in a hovel and asking people if they wanted fries with their order.

If your grades sucked in HS, you could just go on to do something that didn't require a college degree, but would still buy you a modest living.

We don't really have that now... not the way we once did. College is almost written into the requirements for kids in high school now.
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Old 10-31-2013, 12:55 PM
 
Location: The Carolinas
1,987 posts, read 1,902,509 times
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Well, let me temper my earlier (upon reflection) statements.

The whole "if you don't turn it in, you'll get a zero" thing, obviously should be toned down a bit if you're younger, then "turned up" a bit as you get older.

Also, I'm referring to daily, read: smaller, assignments. And, you should be "graded on the curve". Clearly, every student is going to miss some smaller, daily assignments. That being the case, all students should be graded on a curve of points received on the high-end--NOT against the absolute number of points possible. If that were the case NO ONE would get a good grade.

Obviously, if it's a semester-long project, and the student is older, then, yes: you don't turn it in, you get ZERO.
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: NC
6,389 posts, read 4,468,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meh_whatever View Post
But... this is about teaching kids what they need to know to become productive members of society.
Good discussion here. I see your points, and agree that "learning" should be much more of a goal than it is in education. Way too much focus on scores, so I agree with that.

Where I would differ is that <I believe> that one of the things kids need to know to become productive members of society is how to work a deadline, and punctuality in general.

Example: I'm in sales. If the deadline to submit a proposal is 10-31-2013, then even if I have THE BEST proposal, if I don't get it in before the deadline, the amount of revenue I will realize from my sale is zero. Doesn't matter why I didn't get it done, I either have my proposal considered ("scored") or I don't.

I believe this too is a very important lesson. That being that you have to have it all: Quality, on-time, and well-communicated. (Yes, even if it's a science assignment, if your writing skills suck, your grade may suffer...)
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Old 10-31-2013, 01:45 PM
 
527 posts, read 563,574 times
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@ OP, the "p***ification" really?

Your use of derogatory terminology for a woman's vagina doesn't help your case one bit. Maybe try and different word and I'd consider what you have to say.
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