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Old 10-31-2013, 02:05 PM
 
Location: My House
33,076 posts, read 26,889,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Good discussion here. I see your points, and agree that "learning" should be much more of a goal than it is in education. Way too much focus on scores, so I agree with that.

Where I would differ is that <I believe> that one of the things kids need to know to become productive members of society is how to work a deadline, and punctuality in general.

Example: I'm in sales. If the deadline to submit a proposal is 10-31-2013, then even if I have THE BEST proposal, if I don't get it in before the deadline, the amount of revenue I will realize from my sale is zero. Doesn't matter why I didn't get it done, I either have my proposal considered ("scored") or I don't.

I believe this too is a very important lesson. That being that you have to have it all: Quality, on-time, and well-communicated. (Yes, even if it's a science assignment, if your writing skills suck, your grade may suffer...)

yeah... I see what you are saying, and that's where I think the conduct issue comes into play. Penalizing them there, instead of with the grade that may or may not allow them to pass a class (based on their knowledge of the material, not on scores) sounds like a reasonable answer. Having a required course on organization, timeliness, etc where they DO get scored on such things would be a good way to reinforce those habits that they need to carry forward into the world of work... but... don't you think they get that in college, for the most part? Seems that's more relevant than high school re: deadlines. Perhaps another option is to give kids certain assignments that do have deadlines that need to be adhered to fully (aside from documented sickness and the like) and some that are solely to determine whether or not they're grasping the content.

There has to be a better way without totally dismissing the importance of turning in assignments in a timely fashion.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:34 PM
 
9,198 posts, read 21,163,602 times
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I'm a little taken aback by the harshness of some of the responses here.

At the end of a semester, averages get turned into a binary pass or fail (based on the grade given). For some students, a point or two makes the difference. Having a big "zero" or two factor into the average may make it mathematically impossible for such students to ever pull their grade above the "pass line." Consequences are one thing. Failing kids to "teach them a lesson" is quite another.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:39 PM
 
Location: My House
33,076 posts, read 26,889,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHTransplant View Post
I'm a little taken aback by the harshness of some of the responses here.

At the end of a semester, averages get turned into a binary pass or fail (based on the grade given). For some students, a point or two makes the difference. Having a big "zero" or two factor into the average may make it mathematically impossible for such students to ever pull their grade above the "pass line." Consequences are one thing. Failing kids to "teach them a lesson" is quite another.
I agree. They're supposed to be in school to prepare themselves for the hard knocks to come, not to get knocked around in advance.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
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This whole 100 point grading system with 7 points for A-D and 40 points for an F is prety archaic and antiquated. I'd be happy to move away from it and towards something more meaningful. Zeros don't teach life lessons and separates grading a behavior from actual learning.
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Old 10-31-2013, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RDUBiker View Post

Just because someone works hard and turns in all the assignments doesn't mean they should pass the class. Similarly, just because someone knows EVERYTHING but turns in nothing and does poorly on tests also does not mean s/he should pass. I knew all the subject matter in HS, but was lazy and often did minimal work and this system encouraged me to do more of the work and prove that I knew it, else I would have had a poor GPA.

I wish I could rep you repeatedly because I work in higher ed and see both examples you have listed. I have also heard "Can we take a test over," or "Can we make up a quiz we missed?" No, that ship has sailed.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Cary
2,467 posts, read 2,829,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caarmour View Post
@ OP, the "p***ification" really?

Your use of derogatory terminology for a woman's vagina doesn't help your case one bit. Maybe try and different word and I'd consider what you have to say.

The common meaning of his specific use refers to 'weakening'.

pussification(noun): the state in which a society becomes less and less tough. This noun's originator is the famous comedian George Carlin.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:29 PM
 
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Enjoying this discussion. I hope that those who can will also share their views with WCPSS.

I have never been a teacher, only a student, and so I don't know what it takes to grade. Giving anything other than a '0' for not doing work is insulting to both teacher and student. To the teacher for undermining the assignments given for the class and approved based on the curriculum. And to the student for not respecting his/her choice not to do the assignment. Different assignments deserve different weights and some assignments deserve to be turned in late for partial credit. Partial credit shouldn't be an incentive to do assignments late but instead should emphasize that the exercise of doing homework, writing papers, taking tests are about learning and retaining the concepts taught in class; and preparing the student for the world beyond school. For the math teacher, this means identifying where the student went wrong in a executing a math equation. For the history teacher this might mean not making student remember dates for a test and instead ensuring that the students research skills are sound.

Several of my college professors used a point system. Homework might have been 5 points, a quiz 10, a test 20, and a paper 30. The points emphasized the importance of each item. A certain amount of points determined your grade, and the teacher could determine what that range was. In some cases, this range was determined by a curve and sometimes not.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
1,040 posts, read 1,635,080 times
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I had started a thread somewhat related to this subject about a month or so ago. It was about the practice of allowing students to re-take tests and quizzes. After looking into the issue, I came to the conclusion that I do think that learning is ultimately more important than grades. However, our current grading system doesn't support that concept. If we truly just care about what a student has learned, then we should adopt something like a 1-4 grading system like they do in elementary schools here. You don't understand it at all, you get a 1. You understand it with some help, you get a 2. You understand it, you get a 3. You understand and can apply it in other situations, you get a 4.

Having said that, the reason I was upset about the practice of re-taking tests/quizzes is that it's not consistent across the school district (WCPSS). For instance, my daughter's middle school does not allow it, but the district does allow it (and two other middle schools nearby allow it). And yes -- at the end of the day, middle school grades don't wind up on transcripts anywhere. But they do set a tone as far as expectations. And selfishly, it does make my job as a parent harder when my 6th grader's hopes of getting on the "A" honor roll are dashed by a bad grade on a spelling test the 2nd week of school, but her best friend is boasting about straight A's because she could retake any test she wanted (she even laughed because she retook a test on which she got a 97, just so she could get 100). It gives my daughter the impression that grades don't really mean anything if other people can just keep trying until they get what they want (but she has to get it the first time). And yes, I am firm believer of "Life isn't fair", but I do expect the school system to try to be consistent.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:47 PM
 
2,884 posts, read 3,192,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meh_whatever View Post
Making a 50 isn't a bad thing? I doubt people who are true slackers will care if it's a zero or a 50. But, the ones who do care and are struggling will appreciate the opportunity to keep their grades from plummeting.

I think it worked ok "back in the day" because there wasn't also the expectation that everyone had to go to college to have any kind of life that didn't include living in a hovel and asking people if they wanted fries with their order.

If your grades sucked in HS, you could just go on to do something that didn't require a college degree, but would still buy you a modest living.

We don't really have that now... not the way we once did. College is almost written into the requirements for kids in high school now.
And what do all these kids who would not have gone to college in the past do when they get out?

BTW, I disagree with you. There are still skilled tradesmen that make a very good living. Plus, they are not saddled with student loan debt that they will spend a lifetime repaying at that crappy$40,000/yr. desk job.
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Old 10-31-2013, 03:50 PM
 
7,695 posts, read 12,848,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theS5 View Post
To me, it is just more coddling of our youth. Actions have consequences. Its never too early to learn that lesson.
I agree and it's much better to learn the consequences of a "zero" in grade school than college & real life..
I wonder how many employers allow late work for partial credit..
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