Surprised I haven't seen this here yet: WCPSS looking at banning '0' grades and allowing late work? (fit in, student loans)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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I'm surprised that nobody else has brought this up yet, but has anyone considered that the real meaning behind this is to make it easier for them to boost their final numbers in order to earn financial benefits for the school?
I'm pretty sure it's because report card grades don't earn schools any type of financial benefit. I believe the only thing that financial incentives are tied to is EOG scores. I always think of the EOGs as the "school's report card". Those scores are supposed to reflect how well the school did teaching the concepts on the test.
Question for those with older kids --- do EOGs in middle or high school ever actually factor into your child's grade? I know they didn't in elementary school, so I tend not to put a lot of stock into them. I guess, in theory, if your child didn't pass, they could hold them back. However, I'm pretty sure that the state mandates that any child who gets a 1 or 2 must retake the test anyway. They really don't want to hold kids back -- flies in the face of "No Child Left Behind".
Something else that people aren't thinking of is that kids CAN get a zero (or a 10, or a 15, or a 20) on work they DID turn in but do not understand at all.
This type of grading scale shift would avoid that type of thing. I don't know why people are so quick to assume that every kid who ever got a zero got it because he/she is a slacker.
Sometimes kids shut down when an assignment is due that they don't understand and they just don't turn it in. It's not slackerism.... it's being timid or confused and not wanting to ask for help.
Insisting that we keep track of this and get these kids to do the work is going to eliminate a lot of that.
I didn't have a stellar GPA when I left high school. And yes... I was bored. And yeah... I got some zeroes. Still, I managed to get a reasonable GPA, I have one undergrad degree, a master's degree, and I'm working on a 2nd master's degree. And no... I never worked at 40k a year crappy desk job. These wages will depend on the field that someone chose. Regardless, I can tell you that I know people who turned in every assignment in HS and had great GPAs who don't make much money and who hated college enough to never want to go to grad school. Soo... I think all this fuss over making sure kids get penalized for not turning in an assignment has more to do with punishment than with learning. If that's how some of you want school to be, then I think you have a very different impression of what it means to EDUCATE people.
You can point to places like Japan and say the US is lagging behind them, but do we want Japan's suicide rate here for our young adults? I certainly don't think Japan is the bastion of perfection that people imagine it to be.
Seems as if you would like to accommodate a subset of students.
I never said you worked a crappy desk job, but many college grads do. Yes, even those with Masters degrees.
It be Utopia if we could sit down with each student and draw up a personal learning plan, but it is not reality. We have to make the best with the resources available and rely on parenting to handle the rest.
Until we change how our schools work, grades are the metric by which we evaluate how much a child has learned. Our public school systems are already burdened with overcrowding, political correctness and lack of funds. I don't believe that a teacher has the bandwidth to focus on poor Johnny, who is a bright boy, but just won't do his work, at the expense of the other 25 kids in the room.
Now, if you would like to open a private school where grading doesn't matter, submitting required projects doesn't matter, you are certainly entitled.
Again, why do you keep assuming that kids getting a zero (or any other score below a 50) is a sign that the kid is lazy and unwilling to do his/her work?
Have you ever taught public school?
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I am a middle school math teacher in Fairfax County, Virginia. We have implemented these policies. I love them.
1) Late work means students have to get the stuff done, and I can hold them to make them do it. Before, they'd skip the assignment, we'd move on with life, and the kid got a free pass to never learn that material. Sure, teachers could have held the kid and forced them to do it--but it wasn't done. Now, teachers in my school are way more likely to hold kids, and kids are way more likely to stay and actually learn the material.
2) We must give a minimum 50% on all tests and quizzes (not homework, only assessments). This means the kid who fails unit miserably (like, 1/20 questions correct) does not have their entire quarter grade ruined from 1 test. They can still reasonably achieve a C in the class. (They can also retake the test later if they feel more confident down the road--see #3) It increases students' motivation to try on future assessments. In the past, after kids failed chapter 1 they'd shut down and turn off their brains until grades started over in 2nd quarter. Now, they realize there's a point to trying.
3) We must give retakes on every assessment. Is this real life? Heck no. Is this a fantastic way to actually assess WHAT STUDENTS KNOW? Yes!!! And that's my job. Why do I care if a kid learns to solve equations in September or November? The important thing is that they learned it. If they learn it 3 weeks later because something finally clicks, GREAT! I want to reward that knowledge increase. My grades are such a better reflection of what the kids actually know, versus how motivated/lazy they were (which is what zeros showed).
It comes down to what your philosophy on education and grades are. Should grades show mastery of content, or effort/speed of learning/class ranking? Getting rid of zeros, allowing for late work, and retaking exams show me what the students truly know. A kid with a C knows about 70% of the stuff going on. Before, that same kid could have an F if they never turned in assignments but got C's on tests and quizzes.
I worked in the "real world" as an IT consultant for 5 years before becoming a teacher. I know what the "real world" is. School is not and never will be the "real world"--it is a place where you build the knowledge and skills necessary to participate in the real world.
Just thought I'd add perspective from someone who's "been there, done that".
By replacing a zero with a 50, it gives those with "less than admirable" motivation levels a LOT more leeway to coast through, and theoretically put forth even less effort to pass a class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamishra
Aren't those with "less than admirable" motivation levels just going to get 50's? I don't see how it changes anything for students who are unmotivated...a 50 is still failing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh_whatever
Agreed. I mentioned that earlier. I don't get the difference, aside from helping kids who DO care so they don't fail or make a very low grade due to one or two missteps throughout the semester.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly237
Very smart but lazy students will often calculate the lowest grade they can make on an exam and still get
a B or C final grade...
This. The modified scale makes it mathematically far easier to pass with minimal effort. I am not referring to someone that hands in nothing, just students with the tendency to take the path of least resistance to get by. Dealing within the circumstances of the individual student would be a better approach imo.
Again, why do you keep assuming that kids getting a zero (or any other score below a 50) is a sign that the kid is lazy and unwilling to do his/her work?
Have you ever taught public school?
Oh please, don't give me the have you ever taught nonsense.
If a kids scores a zero or a twenty, it is because the kid is not proficient in the subject. Elevating that grade to a 50, does absolutely nothing for that kid.
Giving that kid an opportunity to EARN credit will help the kid immensely.
Now, if we are talking about elementary school kids, kids struggling with comprehending the English language or kids struggling with domestic issues then the teacher/school must consider these issues and assist accordingly. But, school is not a social experiment. We don't have the classroom resources to manage all of these issues.
I can't tell if you're being purposely obtuse or if you genuinely don't realize that George Carlin derived that term from the slang word for vagina.
I view it as I believe it was used here. Implies the embracing of all things politically correct. Nothing to do with vagina. I simply find that twist a bit odd but understand connotations differ between readers.
I am a middle school math teacher in Fairfax County, Virginia. We have implemented these policies. I love them.
1) Late work means students have to get the stuff done, and I can hold them to make them do it. Before, they'd skip the assignment, we'd move on with life, and the kid got a free pass to never learn that material. Sure, teachers could have held the kid and forced them to do it--but it wasn't done. Now, teachers in my school are way more likely to hold kids, and kids are way more likely to stay and actually learn the material.
Does the kid get the same credit as the kid who turned it in on time?
2) We must give a minimum 50% on all tests and quizzes (not homework, only assessments). This means the kid who fails unit miserably (like, 1/20 questions correct) does not have their entire quarter grade ruined from 1 test. They can still reasonably achieve a C in the class. (They can also retake the test later if they feel more confident down the road--see #3) It increases students' motivation to try on future assessments. In the past, after kids failed chapter 1 they'd shut down and turn off their brains until grades started over in 2nd quarter. Now, they realize there's a point to trying.
How many assessments are typical in a quarter? It doesn't seem logical that one assessment could shatter an entire quarter.
3) We must give retakes on every assessment. Is this real life? Heck no. Is this a fantastic way to actually assess WHAT STUDENTS KNOW? Yes!!! And that's my job. Why do I care if a kid learns to solve equations in September or November? The important thing is that they learned it. If they learn it 3 weeks later because something finally clicks, GREAT! I want to reward that knowledge increase. My grades are such a better reflection of what the kids actually know, versus how motivated/lazy they were (which is what zeros showed).
Do kids who scored a 90, but want to improve get that opportunity? I think this is a good idea.
It comes down to what your philosophy on education and grades are. Should grades show mastery of content, or effort/speed of learning/class ranking? Getting rid of zeros, allowing for late work, and retaking exams show me what the students truly know. A kid with a C knows about 70% of the stuff going on. Before, that same kid could have an F if they never turned in assignments but got C's on tests and quizzes.
I worked in the "real world" as an IT consultant for 5 years before becoming a teacher. I know what the "real world" is. School is not and never will be the "real world"--it is a place where you build the knowledge and skills necessary to participate in the real world.
Just thought I'd add perspective from someone who's "been there, done that".
I think you make some good points.
At the end of the day, though, I would not want to send the message that its okay to turn in assignments late. At the very least, assignments turned in late should be graded on a different scale.
Yes, it may show that the child learned the content, but the grade should reflect not meeting the original timetable.
Oh please, don't give me the have you ever taught nonsense.
If a kids scores a zero or a twenty, it is because the kid is not proficient in the subject. Elevating that grade to a 50, does absolutely nothing for that kid.
Giving that kid an opportunity to EARN credit will help the kid immensely.
Now, if we are talking about elementary school kids, kids struggling with comprehending the English language or kids struggling with domestic issues then the teacher/school must consider these issues and assist accordingly. But, school is not a social experiment. We don't have the classroom resources to manage all of these issues.
It's a legitimate question. I take it that since the system as it stands now works for your kids, who gives a damn about the others.
I do. And, yes, all my kids are doing fine in school. My daughter freaked out the other day because she made a 96 on a test in a class where her average is 98.
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