Will Raleigh Ever Have a Skyline Like Charlotte? (Greensboro, Durham: apartment, condominiums)
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
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My wife and I are from Charleston WV. My wife says downtown Charleston is bigger than downtown Raleigh, despite the fact that the Charleston population is about 55K versus Raleigh 400K. I argue with her on that point, but the fact is, if you subtract three buildings - the RBC Tower, the Wells Fargo Tower, and the BB&T tower, she is exactly right - minus these three buildings, the hamlet of Chalreston has a much more impressive downtown with about 5 high rise towers taller than anything else in Raleigh other than those three.
Huh???
So, if you flattened the mountainous area around Charleston, Raleigh would be more hilly? I mean, if we are going to remove things from one city in order to compare it to another, why stop at buildings?
As for your assertion, I don't see that to be proven true. It's true that the tallest building in Charleston (the state capitol building) would be the fourth tallest in a mythical Raleigh/Charleston combo city but the 5th tallest building would be....wait for it.....in Raleigh. One Progress Center in Raleigh is taller than all other buildings in DT Charleston other than the WV Capitol itself. The next two tallest buildings would be from Charleston followed by another building in DT Raleigh. So, of the 8 tallest buildings between the two cities' DTs, Raleigh would have #s 1, 2, 3, 5 & 8 while Charleston would have #s 4, 6 & 7. BTW, this doesn't include the Captrust Tower in Midtown Raleigh. I also didn't include the Wake County Justice Center which Wikipedia claims is 357.50 ft. I just don't believe that number.
There were plans to build new skyscrapers this decade, I know of one project that was going to be two twin towers about the height of the RBC Plaza but the recession halted that, along with others.
I think sometime in the mid 90's there was going to be a 400 foot tower where the RBC Plaza is now. It was supposed to be the headquarters of I think First Citizens Bank.
RTP is the Catch-22 for Raleigh. It brings business but leaves DTR in a disorganized and underdeveloped mess
What?
DT Raleigh is actually very well planned with clear neighborhood branding and district identity. Calling it an underdeveloped mess is way over the top in my opinion. At the end of the day, DT Raleigh is experiencing a huge boom of construction with hundreds of housing units coming on the market in the next two years with hundreds following them afterward. Citrix will also open its doors soon in the Warehouse District to accompany all the new art galleries, CAM, restaurants, clubs and creative class businesses. The new Union Station is also funded and will take shape soon.
Skyhouse is breaking ground now at Moore Square, bringing 23 floors of new high end apartments to the DT market near the expanding RedHat HQ. Wilmington Street and the near east side of DT has been transformed in the last 5 years with each restored storefront from the turn of the 20th century. Glenwood South is rapidly turning itself into a true urban neighborhood with every new midrise housing project completed. I heard the other day that 425 Boylan has many hundreds on the waiting list for every single one of the 250+ units being built.
It's very easy to see Raleigh shape its DT on the neighborhood model and one that is on a very people centric scale. I'm sure more "towers" will follow but I don't see the idea of more towers as a solution looking for a problem and I don't suspect that Raleigh will look for reasons to add them for their own sake. In the end, Raleigh is a different animal. In addition the aforementioned nature of the Triangle, Raleigh also serves as the state capital. This brings state resources and amenties but also controls a lot of the city's core real estate. Raleigh will be its own city and its DT will be its own model. It's not going to follow in Charlotte's footsteps because its path is different.
No, it will likely never catch up to Charlotte's skyline in height, unless something really bad were to happen to Charlotte's economy.
Raleigh's skyline will improve though. It has grown at a steady pace for the past two decades. I think the handful of buildings about to go up (Skyhouse, Charter Square, Edison office tower) will put it on par with Richmond. There's also a ton of dense low-rise infill ongoing inside the beltline. It is highly likely to end up looking more like Austin than Charlotte, in the long run.
That's nothing to complain about.
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Originally Posted by RVAtoCNC
My wife and I are from Charleston WV. My wife says downtown Charleston is bigger than downtown Raleigh, despite the fact that the Charleston population is about 55K versus Raleigh 400K. I argue with her on that point, but the fact is, if you subtract three buildings - the RBC Tower, the Wells Fargo Tower, and the BB&T tower, she is exactly right - minus these three buildings, the hamlet of Chalreston has a much more impressive downtown with about 5 high rise towers taller than anything else in Raleigh other than those three.
-Even without those three buildings Raleigh still has a much larger downtown than Charleston. Downtowns are a lot more than tall buildings. Though it would still have a slightly better skyline as well.
-One Progress Plaza (276 ft), the fourth tallest building in Raleigh, is still taller than the tallest office building in Charleston. The Kanawha Valley Building is 265 ft.
-the nature of Raleigh's economy vs Charlotte's economy (the financial sector is the biggest reason Charlotte's skyline and the city in general is what it is today. If Charlotte wasn't a banking capital, its possible Raleigh could be bigger than Charlotte today.) If you look at most cities with big skylines around the country, they have one thing in common. They became the cities they are today due to natural resources, being near rivers, coastal ports ect. The Charlotte area is really not that much different. It was a small gold mining area which led to the city becoming a financial capital just like oil fueled the growth in cities in Texas.
-Charlotte is more of a single city metro, Raleigh is part of a multi city metro where growth and development is more spread out and suburban.
I dont think any city in the Triangle, and even less likely the primary cities in the Triad will ever have the kind of skyline Charlotte has. Charlotte also has a big city mindset. Raleigh wants growth and to have a cosmopolitan atmosphere, but at the same time is not trying to become the next Atlanta which appears to be Charlotte's goal.
But honestly a city's greatness is not measured by how tall the buildings are in its downtown. Ive seen downtown's greater and more livable/urban than Charlotte's and doesnt have nearly as many towers.
One thing that I have noticed is that there are only two large cities in NC that have interstates that go through downtown and thats Charlotte and Winston-Salem. Raleigh, Durham and Greensboro dont have interstates going through downtown and the skylines of Durham and Greensboro really aren't visible from the interstates.
... DT Raleigh is experiencing a huge boom of construction with hundreds of housing units coming on the market in the next two years with hundreds following them afterward.
That constitutes a "boom"? I suppose it depends on one's reference. While this is happening, Raleigh OTB and Wake County outside Raleigh are picking up new homes (apartments/subdivisions) by the thousands... an order of magnitude more growth.
Having lunch today at IPub. If we don't decide to go to Mahoney's. Or Bocci. Or the Hibernian. Or....
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Originally Posted by theS5
That's one I have not been to. Where is this located?
My bad.
I have been there many times, and have the name wrong.... The Cary Pub
It is "The Cary Pub."
"Cary" is sideways in small characters in a sign block that looks like an "I," and either that is new, or I have always overlooked it.
Many people have met me for lunch at the "IPub," so I can't believe that I am the only one.
Corner of Tryon Rd and SE Cary Parkway, in the strip plaza with Lowes.
It was "The Bermuda Room" several years ago.
Pretty good bar food, and friendly service. The French fries were hot when they arrived.
How do people feel about tall building being built outside of downtown proper? I am kind of conflicted seeing the tall(er) building around North Hills. How would the 17-story Captrust Tower look downtown instead?
I am very glad that Soleil Center was never built. A 43-story, 480 ft building near Crabtree Mall would stick out so bad. Moreover it would add so much to the downtown skyline.
How do people feel about tall building being built outside of downtown proper? I am kind of conflicted seeing the tall(er) building around North Hills. How would the 17-story Captrust Tower look downtown instead?
I am very glad that Soleil Center was never built. A 43-story, 480 ft building near Crabtree Mall would stick out so bad. Moreover it would add so much to the downtown skyline.
I'm glad the Soleil Center was never built. That would've stuck out like a sore thumb. I'm not against tall buildings outside downtown in all instances. If it's in a suburban location a tall building is nothing more than vertical sprawl, though. And if it's going to be the tallest building in the city... that's a problem.
We have this issue with some companies being ideologically opposed to urban development. First Citizens bank pulled out of downtown in the 90s, canceled their tower (which would've sat where the PNC building currently is), and demolished a perfectly good historic block as well. They've been in an office park in North Hills ever since. Kane realty isn't too big on downtown either, and they are deliberately being even more disruptive than the Soleil center would've been, putting a second tower in North Hills.
I think if the city changed its tax code, that would go a long way towards eliminating the subsidy the suburbs enjoy, which is driving much of this sprawl at the expense of downtown. Were it up to me I'd reduce the property taxes significantly, and institute a municipal income tax. The result of this is that no matter where a company locates in the city, they'd be paying taxes based on the size of their operation and not the location. Consequently, the benefits of proximity would begin to outweigh the benefits of cost that you get for locating in a suburban office park. Residential and retail in downtown would explode under that kind of system.
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