Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This will have two specific outcomes, massive congestion on secondary roads (because some people really will struggle to spend the extra $10 per week) and a much easier ride for the rest of us. But even if volume falls off on 540 it won't disappear and so Wake County will still appreciate a nice bump in revenue from the resulting tolls.
I think that those of you who are against tolls should completely boycott use of 540 and let people like me happily spend the extra buck to get home ten minutes earlier. Seriously, I'm all for paying a little extra to enjoy the convenience of extra time.
The anti-growth, anti-sprawl sentiment is sincere but it's also largely limited to ITB Raleigh, the city of Durham, and Orange County. It's not generally shared OTB Raleigh or elsewhere in Wake County.
For the record, my comments so far have not been anti-growth, just pro-controlled growth.
If anyone cares to spend some time doing web research (the published documents are not always easy to reference or cite, so be prepared to do a little homework of your own, but they are out there), look at the effect of tolls in other cities on volume-to-capacity ratio for a given road. Tolls result in some measurable reduction of traffic flow in pretty much every case I've seen documented.
What is not apparent from a lot of the documents is the exponential effect on the typical average commute time for that road. A small percentage reduction in volume (say 2-5%) tends to have the effect of reducing fender benders, junk cars broken down in the middle of the road, etc. because the tolls deter the joyriding teenagers or the jalopy drivers that don't maintain their car are the same types of people who would be deterred by the tolls from taking that route, so a 2 percent volume reduction often ends up shaving 10 minutes off the AVERAGE per day commute for commuters.
This will have two specific outcomes, massive congestion on secondary roads (because some people really will struggle to spend the extra $10 per week) and a much easier ride for the rest of us. But even if volume falls off on 540 it won't disappear and so Wake County will still appreciate a nice bump in revenue from the resulting tolls.
I think that those of you who are against tolls should completely boycott use of 540 and let people like me happily spend the extra buck to get home ten minutes earlier. Seriously, I'm all for paying a little extra to enjoy the convenience of extra time.
You are absolutely right, although I'm not sure the secondary road congestion would be "massive". It is the downside of the toll strategy though, which is why I was kind of amused that nobody yet has used that as the basis of their argument.
I'm with you, though... I'll pay a little more for an easier ride. I don't think you have to worry about volume falling off 540 completely. It would just help eliminate the jams and the cases where the flow speed is less than half the speed limit.
540 through Cary/Apex has very little traffic during the day, when surface streets are not congested, but it is fairly busy at rush hour when parallel roads like 55 and Davis get crowded. If I leave work early or late enough, I can take 55 or Davis, but if I leave between 5pm and 6pm I take the toll road as it can save quite a bit of time.
This is exactly what I suspect would happen if 540 through North Raleigh were tolled with similar toll rates. Most people will only consider a toll road of the alternative is congested. Traffic on 540 would stay pretty heavy during rush hour as there isn't really enough spare capacity on the alternatives to absorb much traffic. Outside of rush hour, more people would stick to surface streets.
As a side note, If NCTA cut tolls outside of rush hour (which I think they should do, and reportedly they are studying) they would probably get more overall revenue and also keep more traffic off surface streets.
540 through Cary/Apex has very little traffic during the day, when surface streets are not congested, but it is fairly busy at rush hour when parallel roads like 55 and Davis get crowded. If I leave work early or late enough, I can take 55 or Davis, but if I leave between 5pm and 6pm I take the toll road as it can save quite a bit of time.
This is exactly what I suspect would happen if 540 through North Raleigh were tolled with similar toll rates. Most people will only consider a toll road of the alternative is congested. Traffic on 540 would stay pretty heavy during rush hour as there isn't really enough spare capacity on the alternatives to absorb much traffic. Outside of rush hour, more people would stick to surface streets.
As a side note, If NCTA cut tolls outside of rush hour (which I think they should do, and reportedly they are studying) they would probably get more overall revenue and also keep more traffic off surface streets.
NCTA and NCDOT desperately need to extend 540 southeast from Apex to I-40 @ US 70 interchange.
Picking up traffic from Sunset Lake, West Lake, etc, and points beyond would be a boon for traffic and revenue.
i understand the philosophical objection to a toll road but you could look at this another way. what do drivers in other parts of the country pay. For example the Dulles Toll in VA by 2020 could cost as much as $6.75 one way up from $2.75 one way today and even though Dulles is a toll road you have stop and go traffic. At less than $1 and empty roads things seem pretty good in Raleigh.
The toll part of 540 is pretty embarassing. Man it is bumpy for a new road. You would think a new road, especially a toll road would be like driving on glass.
Might want to check the alignment in your car or your shocks. I've never had that problem on 540.
Could the NCDOT just add one toll lane in each direction, instead of tolling the entire section? Charlotte is widening the southwest section of their loop, and they're widening it from four general purpose lanes to six general purpose lanes, plus two HOT lanes (though, for now, they're going to be left as an inner shoulder lane).
i understand the philosophical objection to a toll road but you could look at this another way. what do drivers in other parts of the country pay. For example the Dulles Toll in VA by 2020 could cost as much as $6.75 one way up from $2.75 one way today and even though Dulles is a toll road you have stop and go traffic. At less than $1 and empty roads things seem pretty good in Raleigh.
But that's my outsiders view
I understand nuhusky. For those of for whom high tolls and ridiculous congestion are not too distant do a memory yet, this feel like, "What's the big deal...?". However, after being on this forum for a short time, I realize that the people who have been in NC longer know more than me and have valid points to make.
Could the NCDOT just add one toll lane in each direction, instead of tolling the entire section? Charlotte is widening the southwest section of their loop, and they're widening it from four general purpose lanes to six general purpose lanes, plus two HOT lanes (though, for now, they're going to be left as an inner shoulder lane).
Individual toll lanes is one of the suggestions being considered.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Agreed
