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Hello, I'm finishing my attic. Before I do the insulation and drywall, I need to install some outlets. Since I already have a dedicated 20A circuit running from the panel outside up to the attic. I only need to wire the outlets within the attic and I'm thinking this is easy enough to do it myself. I'm planning to use 12 AWG wires and 20A receptacles. The code says the distance between two receptacles should not exceed 12' and between 6' between a door to a receptacle, along the wall line. Anything else I'm missing other than this requirement? Or I should hire a licensed electrician to do this for me?
Thanks!
Don't forget that 12' is just the minimum, put in more. When I rewired my attic bedrooms I put them every 6'.
I was a licensed Electrician and that's what I recommend to you.
BTW the poster who said you can use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit is correct.
Pretty sure the number one cause of home fires is faulty wiring. Let a pro do it.
I agree it's not rocket science, it's one of those things that if you aren't practiced in what you're doing, you can make a very simple mistake that can have major consequences later. And no, most electrical DIY'ers don't know their limits -- watch any of these remodeling shows and you see botched DIY electrical projects by the dozens per week. It seems too easy so folks plod ahead and create a hazard. I'm not trying to be snarky but the fact you had to ask me about the grommet proves my point. You need to insert plastic grommets into the holes you drilled to prevent the possibility of the cable getting severed by the sharp corner of the drilled wood if tension is ever placed on it. And nail plates are great if the person knows to drill the holes in the first place, but a lot of people won't, or what usually happens is they end up getting tired/bored/a sore back or whatever and start taking shortcuts just to get it done faster... "okay, I'll just have to remember never to hammer nails in this area", etc., creating a nice little booby trap for the future homeowner(s).
Drilling holes for the cabling is only one example. There are many things that can go wrong with electrical, and I'm not an electrician and wouldn't be able to name them all so I'll just leave it there. There are enough things for a homeowner to do themselves if they want to feel useful and attempt to save some money. Electrical is the one area I'd leave to the pros. It's too easy to get in a situation where the wiring appears to work fine but is actually a tragedy waiting to happen.
While I agree the OP should not attempt more than they feel comfortable, OP's project is simple enough that I would encourage them to attempt it after doing their homework and applying for and obtaining a permit (for the entire job, not just the wiring).
The difficult work has already been done - the builder pre-wired the area with a separate 15A (lighting) and 20A (receptacle) circuits. [I would confirm those circuits are dedicated (not in use elsewhere in the house, but the project is already miles ahead of a home owner trying to tap an existing circuit from downstairs)].
I believe grommets are for use in metal studs with pre-punched holes for the reasons you mention above (avoid nicking wires when tension is applied). A quick google search didn't bring up any hits for using them in wood studs. When I wired my basement last year, TOC inspectors had no issues with romex run through wood studs without grommets/bushings. Basically use common sense, slow and easy to pull the cable through. If you tear the sheathing, then replace it.
Also, as Sheriff mentioned, most of the wiring could potentially be run behind the attic kneewalls, which would provide protection from screws well in excess of the 1 1/4" code, as well as saving the hassle of drilling holes and pulling 12 gauge cable through a hole.
OP, code will most likely force you to switch out your breakers to AFCI (arc fault) breakers on both new circuits and potentially any existing ones where the circuit has a receptacle in the newly finished space. [They cost ~10 times more than traditional ones at your local big box store]
Last edited by cheapdad00; 09-10-2014 at 08:39 PM..
Don't forget that 12' is just the minimum, put in more. When I rewired my attic bedrooms I put them every 6'.
I 2nd this, put receptacles wherever you think you will ever need them. Also, don't forget to put on ceiling for a projector or higher on wall for a wall mounted TV.
If you have one and can get access to the circuit, I would recommend tying in the new attic smoke detectors into the smoke detector circuit for the rest of the house. If you are in the attic, presumably you could access the electrical box for the floor below. If you don't have one, it would be a good time to install interconnected smoke detector (or combo CO detectors if you have gas appliances in the house). That way if a fire starts either in the attic or the 1st floor/basement, you dont have to worry about hearing it 2 floors away.
I was a licensed Electrician and that's what I recommend to you.
Pretty sure the number one cause of home fires is faulty wiring. Let a pro do it.
While I have no data to dispute this and it certainly passes the common sense test (since fewer and fewer people smoke in the house anymore), I would be interested in seeing the stats on causes of household electrical fires.
E.G. what % is due to a homeowner screwing up an install (in a modern home with only romex, protected by circuit breakers) vs. what % of fires are due to old wiring failing (knob and tube going bad, aluminum wiring coming loose over time), improper use of extension cords, kitchen fire due to grease on an electric stove, or small plugin cooking appliances....
I believe grommets are for use in metal studs with pre-punched holes for the reasons you mention above (avoid nicking wires when tension is applied). A quick google search didn't bring up any hits for using them in wood studs. When I wired my basement last year, TOC inspectors had no issues with romex run through wood studs without grommets/bushings. Basically use common sense, slow and easy to pull the cable through. If you tear the sheathing, then replace it.
That's why I was asking about them. I have never seen them used in wooden studs. My latest edition of the NEC is 2011 (they come out every three years), so it is possible it could have been added in the latest edition.
This is the response that the OP received in the electrical forum mentioned earlier:
Quote:
15 amp or 20 amp receptacles are code compliant on a 20 amp branch circuit. General Statutes guarantee resident homeowners the right to do any work on their own homes but if you feel uneasy, a licensed electrician may be beneficial. There are quite a few thing to keep in mind. A short list is tamper resistant receptacles, smoke detector tied into the remainder of the house's smoke detectors, protection of wiring, box fill, three-way switches top and bottom of stairs. . . A permit and inspections will be required for the work as well.
I believe grommets are for use in metal studs with pre-punched holes for the reasons you mention above (avoid nicking wires when tension is applied). A quick google search didn't bring up any hits for using them in wood studs. When I wired my basement last year, TOC inspectors had no issues with romex run through wood studs without grommets/bushings. Basically use common sense, slow and easy to pull the cable through. If you tear the sheathing, then replace it.
I don't think the grommets have ever been required in wood to pass code, but they are preferred because the corners of the holes in wood can damage the wire casing as well. The difference is that with wood of course, the exposed wire doesn't risk turning the entire house into one huge immediate electrocution risk, but it can still lead to fire. The tension in question is not just the tension that may occur during the initial installation, but tension that can occur in the future via other construction projects or movement where the tension occurs in one location but the damage wire casing is behind invisible wall. In some cases wood bowing can create tension -- which you consider that just humidity can cause some wood framing components to flex by a quarter of an inch over time, when small amounts of movement happens to multiple studs it can add tension in places that wasn't originally planned for.
In all fairness, a professional is probably not going to put grommets into wood unless you ask for them. This is because they tend to maximize profit and if its to code and hasn't been asked for, they are not going to gratuitously add safety features. But, if I were a homeowner that was doing any sort of project where my family would be living, I would not forego the opportunity to make it safer by buying a few little plastic plugs.
My real point was not just about grommets though -- it was to illustrate how unawareness of a small/simple thing usually reveals lack of experience about other things that relate to safety, and electrical work should not be attempted by those with lack of experience in the area.
Just my opinion here -- if anyone allows themselves to be talked into a DIY electrical job, it should be under the advise (and preferably direction) of a pro. Just because another DIY'er has not yet burned down their place, moving forward because they said you could is probably a bad idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheapdad00
Also, as Sheriff mentioned, most of the wiring could potentially be run behind the attic kneewalls, which would provide protection from screws well in excess of the 1 1/4" code, as well as saving the hassle of drilling holes and pulling 12 gauge cable through a hole.
Any time there is an opportunity to run the wiring where there is an opportunity to run the cable with less risk of something else moving that cable in the future, it's usually a good thing. But again there are a lot of things to consider with electrical work.
In all fairness, a professional is probably not going to put grommets into wood unless you ask for them. This is because they tend to maximize profit and if its to code and hasn't been asked for, they are not going to gratuitously add safety features. But, if I were a homeowner that was doing any sort of project where my family would be living, I would not forego the opportunity to make it safer by buying a few little plastic plugs.
It's almost humorous reading the responses here. On one hand, a pro is recommended because they know how to do things "to code" yet on the other hand a DIY'er would do things "above code" yet they are still a safety risk.
No, a DIY'er might not know every little nuance of the electrical code. That is what A) books B) online forums and C) inspections are for. This is an excellent learning exercise for someone to start out doing their own wiring, it couldn't be a better learning experience!
In my experience serious DIY'ers do a more complete, methodical job on almost anything they work on because they are not driven by the mantra "time is money".
That being said, you could be like someone I know and wire up under cabinet lighting with speaker wire (this is in the Raleigh area). Completely against every bit of code found anywhere in the NEC. I said something, but you can't make them change it. My worry is for the people who purchase the house afterward, not knowing what was done.
But, this isn't a reflection of every DIY'er, merely goes to show they run the gamut. You can have a DIY'er go above and beyond and those who completely disregard all code.
It's almost humorous reading the responses here. On one hand, a pro is recommended because they know how to do things "to code" yet on the other hand a DIY'er would do things "above code" yet they are still a safety risk.
Actually the fact that the OP indicated he knew how far away to place the receptacles and was asking if there's anything else he needs to know should have been all anyone needed to read if they really wanted to prevent him from creating a fire hazard.
And for the record I didn't say anything about code compliance being the reason a pro is recommended. Anyone who accepts minimum code as a work quality standard is only a couple of levels up from the DIY'ers. If you asked most people how important their family is to them, do you think they would opt for the minimum safety plan or the maximum safety plan? Maybe somewhere in between for the self-confident penny pinchers. lol
... you could be like someone I know and wire up under cabinet lighting with speaker wire ...
You saw the wire; I did not. Maybe this scenario is less horrible than it seems on the surface.
If those lights were low-voltage LEDs and the speaker wire was connected to a plug-in "wall wart" I'd call that satisfactory. Not ideal, but satisfactory.
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