Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
NPGuy -- another way to look at thing is to understand that sometimes the nature of the place where you already live changes. For example, my new friend in this thread claims to have lived in downtown for 15 years. Downtown is quite different than it was 15 years ago. Although my new friend likes this, not everyone does. It's quite possible that someone moved downtown, for example, when it was very different, and has grown to dislike the way that it has developed. This might be the basis of their complaints.
"Claims"? I have, no need to lie. Yes, downtown was VERY different. Fayetteville was the mall, not the street, everybody except for residents, restaurant industry people, nightlife crowds, and musicians were down here after 5pm. I was a renter then. The thing is, to the people who OWN property down here now, we want it to continue building up, the value is only going up on my property. People like you who can't handle noise (so the lowbrow places you say make a lot of noise are the problem, yet the Times isn't the loudest bar?). It was very quiet in 2000, but guess what? It was much harder to own a business or property down here, it was limited in scope. Many people wanted revitalization, and now we have it, and people are complaining about---- noise. We wanted downtown to become populated and we're complaining about--- noise. Noise, BTW, that is in one specific area. If you have your heart set on living on Fayetteville St, get used to it, it's only going to build up and spread out. We can't compare it to 2000, or expect it to be the same, you can't have both. And if people can't handle it, there are places in close proximity to downtown that are suitable- which is what Greg is doing. That's his right, but just because it's not suitable for his family doesn't mean it's unlivable for others or that it should be toned down.
You keep getting comments from me directed towards you because you're the one who seems to think Greg is infallible and undeserving of criticism and being called out for what is blatant hypocrisy. You can't even admit that he is partly responsible for it either. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong, no matter how smart you think you are.
"Claims"? I have, no need to lie. Yes, downtown was VERY different. Fayetteville was the mall, not the street, everybody except for residents, restaurant industry people, nightlife crowds, and musicians were down here after 5pm. I was a renter then. The thing is, to the people who OWN property down here now, we want it to continue building up, the value is only going up on my property. People like you who can't handle noise (so the lowbrow places you say make a lot of noise are the problem, yet the Times isn't the loudest bar?). It was very quiet in 2000, but guess what? It was much harder to own a business or property down here, it was limited in scope. Many people wanted revitalization, and now we have it, and people are complaining about---- noise. We wanted downtown to become populated and we're complaining about--- noise. Noise, BTW, that is in one specific area. If you have your heart set on living on Fayetteville St, get used to it, it's only going to build up and spread out. We can't compare it to 2000, or expect it to be the same, you can't have both. And if people can't handle it, there are places in close proximity to downtown that are suitable- which is what Greg is doing. That's his right, but just because it's not suitable for his family doesn't mean it's unlivable for others or that it should be toned down.
You keep getting comments from me directed towards you because you're the one who seems to think Greg is infallible and undeserving of criticism and being called out for what is blatant hypocrisy. You can't even admit that he is partly responsible for it either. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong, no matter how smart you think you are.
It has become a distinct pleasure to hear from you, as your posts are so charming.
Do you remember Fayetteville Street before it was closed for the mall? Probably not. Raleigh's downtown was a real city downtown. Unfortunately, the urban-planner mentality, which you see today in spades, gave us the mall, and then, in an attempt to save downtown from oblivion, decided that a yuppie theme park was the way to go. And now we have a place for the kids to play at night.
Let's trade four or five restaurants and a half-dozen bars for a good grocery store, like a real city has, and like downtown Raleigh had before the era of the urban planner. Grocery stores make very little noise . . . especially if they are patronized by adults (do you know any?).
It has become a distinct pleasure to hear from you, as your posts are so charming.
Do you remember Fayetteville Street before it was closed for the mall? Probably not. Raleigh's downtown was a real city downtown. Unfortunately, the urban-planner mentality, which you see today in spades, gave us the mall, and then, in an attempt to save downtown from oblivion, decided that a yuppie theme park was the way to go. And now we have a place for the kids to play at night.
Let's trade four or five restaurants and a half-dozen bars for a good grocery store, like a real city has, and like downtown Raleigh had before the era of the urban planner. Grocery stores make very little noise . . . especially if they are patronized by adults (do you know any?).
Oh please, downtown was dead before the implementation of the mall. (Which was designed to mimic the design of suburban malls like Crabtree.) Sadly it failed; but the that doesn't reflect on all grand scale civic projects. The current revitalization has been incredibly successful, and between the hours of 8AM-9PM downtown is very family friendly, with revitalization it's usually young people (yuppies) and bars/restaurants that come first, and once there is enough residential population things like grocery stores and other retail start to fill in the blanks; and eventually everything should find a balance. I hope the city doesn't screw up by implementing a complete moratorium on sound permits, but in the near future it might be good to reform the application process.
It has become a distinct pleasure to hear from you, as your posts are so charming.
Do you remember Fayetteville Street before it was closed for the mall? Probably not. Raleigh's downtown was a real city downtown. Unfortunately, the urban-planner mentality, which you see today in spades, gave us the mall, and then, in an attempt to save downtown from oblivion, decided that a yuppie theme park was the way to go. And now we have a place for the kids to play at night.
Let's trade four or five restaurants and a half-dozen bars for a good grocery store, like a real city has, and like downtown Raleigh had before the era of the urban planner. Grocery stores make very little noise . . . especially if they are patronized by adults (do you know any?).
People have been calling for a grocery store downtown since 2006, but there's a reason no major chain has successfully opened, and it's not due to planners excluding them, it's bc those chains don't see it as being practical just yet. We need more residents and businesses. The economy fallout in 2008 only delayed that process, but as you can see, tech companies are moving downtown bringing more residents (notice all the housing going up?). Once that is in place, you will see development for a grocery store and more retail (and they're going to have to be willing to include some commercial retail). One thing that has attracted conventions and business downtown? Bars and restaurants and vibrant nightlife. If downtown was a quiet as you wanted, we wouldn't be moving forward with the rivitalization of downtown. You call it yuppie, yet your pal Greg is very much into yuppie.
And I highly doubt you were here pre-mall days, unless you're really old and forget what it's like to live in that large city you claim to be from.
Well, what you're saying is straight out of the nouveau-planners book of dogma. So this is the way that cities are built -- first there are bars, then the rest naturally follows. And nightlife is not vibrant unless it is accompanied by screaming loud "music," and people relieving themselves in public.
Look into the pre-mall days more carefully. History didn't begin the day you were born.
Well, what you're saying is straight out of the nouveau-planners book of dogma. So this is the way that cities are built -- first there are bars, then the rest naturally follows. And nightlife is not vibrant unless it is accompanied by screaming loud "music," and people relieving themselves in public.
Look into the pre-mall days more carefully. History didn't begin the day you were born.
Again, if you think that's what's going on downtown, you're sorely mistaken. You can't even compare pre-mall days to now. Pre-mall days were more than 40 years ago, a completely different era. This isn't some rookie urban planning, this is just what has naturally taken place in Raleigh. Bars and restaurants kept downtown alive, it was the only interest in downtown for a few years, then events and development took off. It's all coming together. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. The funny thing is, the way a lot of people feel who've been downtown before the revitalization, is that bars and restaurants were here first, the only pulse of the city outside of government. They were here before a lot of these new residences. Like I said, that's all that was downtown for a long time after 5pm. Do you even live downtown? How long have you lived downtown, if you do? How long have you been in Raleigh?
lol @ your last quote. Laughable and grabbing for straws.
Well, what you're saying is straight out of the nouveau-planners book of dogma. So this is the way that cities are built -- first there are bars, then the rest naturally follows. And nightlife is not vibrant unless it is accompanied by screaming loud "music," and people relieving themselves in public.
This is why I love quality suburbs so much more. This bar hopping, loud music, screaming, etc is typical of many 20 somethings, but then people grow up and want an adult life. I cannot imagine living around that crap, BUT the person who helped create it seems like the last person who should complain about it.
Well, what you're saying is straight out of the nouveau-planners book of dogma. So this is the way that cities are built -- first there are bars, then the rest naturally follows. And nightlife is not vibrant unless it is accompanied by screaming loud "music," and people relieving themselves in public.
Clearly you haven't been on a date or anything involving nightlife in a really long time. Why comment on something you have little to no recent first hand experience with?
People go out to dance or enjoy music. Bars in this state are forced to shut down early and force all the patrons out on the street, and if they are responsible patrons they are probably going to have to wait for a cab or Uber or whatever. So unless you or Hat-him has some sort of plan for building 24-hour restrooms with outdoor entrances within a convenient walk from every bar or club, you can expect to see some level of bodily fluids in the street.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
