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Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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My observations are a bit different. I agree that the kids here are very similar to kids everywhere. But...do the children of the doctors hang out with the refugees from the trailer park? In a word, No. In elementary school, the kids mostly interact with everyone while at school. But as far as playdates, I rarely see the children who are bused to school from the apartments hanging out in Southern Village to play. And my kids have never been invited to any apartments for playdates.
There is also very little interaction between the parents that I notice. Only walker parents hang out at the "walker door" so they don't have an opportunity to interact with parents of kids who are bused to school (and are generally the kids from lesser means). This is my 4th year volunteering in at least one of my kids' classrooms and in after school activities, and I have primarily only seen other "have" parents there (understandably, the "have not" parents are probably working or don't have the means to travel to school or possibly don't speak the language). So, in general, no there isn't much interaction among the kids or families of different socioeconomic statuses outside the classroom.
In middle school, there is an absolute divide between the "haves" and "have nots." When I say "haves" I mean kids whose parents have gone to college or would generally be considered middle to upper-middle class. The students are somewhat separated out by classroom as more often than not the kids in compacted classes are those from more educated families. The kids from less educated families are considered "at risk" and have several programs set up for them including AVID for the kids and Latina, African-American, and Karen parent groups for the parents.
In their extracurricular activities, my kids are almost exclusively in contact with other "have" kids - swim team, Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, volleyball, music lessons, etc. The one exception might be soccer where there tend to be a large Hispanic population who may be on the lower-end of the socioeconomic scale for Chapel Hill. But again, I don't see much interaction/real friendships outside the field.
As much as people want to think that all kids across all socioeconomic groups are holding hands and singing "Kumbaya" it's just not happening. Yes, my children have friends who are white, Hispanic, Asian, black, Middle Eastern, etc. But the one commonality is that almost all, if not all, of them are children of parents who are employed with decent jobs and/or went to college. Is it because we have taught our kids that they are better than "have not" kids? Absolutely not! I'm sure my 2nd and 4th graders don't even know who the "have not" kids are. But they naturally have more in common with kids who live near them, participate in the same activities as them, are pulled out for advanced learning with them, speak their language, etc. Are there some friendships that cross socioeconomic lines? Of course, there are! But overall, they are the exception rather than the rule in my observation and experience.
To confirm what I just wrote, my middle schooler and her friend just came home from school and I asked them if there is a "divide" in middle school between the "haves" and "have nots' and they said, "Oh yeah, definitely! There is the Southern Village/Meadowmont kids and then there's the trailer kids"
Agree with your observations, michgc, but then again that isn't any different from adults and I suspect this is the case just about everywhere-- it's just human nature.
I have two sons at East CHHS. My one observation is that high schools in the CHCSS are real pressure cookers. Based on conversations with other parents in the Triangle, my impression is that Chapel Hill/Carrboro schools push students harder with more material and more difficult material. The AP classes are no joke! The students are highly motivated and competitive. These aren't bad things, necessarily, as long as a student can handle the stress that this can bring.
That is NOT my experience at all as far as kids interacting with different social groups, but again my kid is in elementary school. My kid does have friends in lower socio-economic groups and has been over to their apartments. Maybe that's the way it is in SoVill and Meadowmont schools (less interaction, more stratification) but in Carrboro and my part of Chapel Hill it's much more chill. I don't know first hand about the high schools but while I'm sure there is some socio-economic divide but I think there is more crossing of it too.
ETA: I asked my 5th grader about a haves/have not divide at her school and she said not really.
Thanks for the helpful replies. Our schools in the UK and France certainly were different; at both there was mixing of socio-economic groups, though that was only up to grade 7. I understand that the US has different issues, and we will make the most of it!
Is Mary Scroggs really a Title I school? I find that surprising.
Either way I don't really understand NYC2RDU's comments. He/she lives in North Raleigh I'm pretty sure...talk about Stepford!
Schools where all kids from different socio-economic background mix and are best friends for life pretty much only exist in children's books and television shows unfortunately; but there is diversity in CH schools that is less "forced" than it is in Wake IMO. The youth programs I run which pull from CHCCS have kids who live The Oaks, Southern Village, Meadowmont, Lake Hogan Farms, etc...but we also have kids who live in Airport Gardens, South Estes, and Estes Park.
Will these kids grow up to be college roommates? Probably not. They do interact and form friendships though and I'd say probably on an "above average" scale compared to most affluent suburban towns around the country. I agree that the differences become more apparent to them all in middle and high school. I will say though that when I was still in undergrad at UNC, my girlfriend and I both volunteered as tutorw at Hargraves Community Center and worked alongside some Chapel Hill High seniors who were black and hispanic and grew up in the aforementioned "have not" neighborhoods. Those guys were often much sharper and fit for tutoring their peers and the middle schoolers and underclassmen than me; the white guy who grew up in a well-off household in Cary/Apex!
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
9,778 posts, read 15,788,843 times
Reputation: 10886
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelNick
Is Mary Scroggs really a Title I school? I find that surprising.
Yes, Mary Scroggs became a Title 1 school last year. At Back to School night this year, all the parents had to sign a form about the school being a Title 1 school. When FPG became a Spanish Immersion school, many of their "base" students became base students at Mary Scroggs, and Scroggs absorbed a lot of the Karen refugees. There was always a contingent of low-income students at Mary Scroggs, but it became much larger when FPG closed to regular students.
Is Mary Scroggs really a Title I school? I find that surprising.
Either way I don't really understand NYC2RDU's comments. He/she lives in North Raleigh I'm pretty sure...talk about Stepford!
Schools where all kids from different socio-economic background mix and are best friends for life pretty much only exist in children's books and television shows unfortunately; but there is diversity in CH schools that is less "forced" than it is in Wake IMO. The youth programs I run which pull from CHCCS have kids who live The Oaks, Southern Village, Meadowmont, Lake Hogan Farms, etc...but we also have kids who live in Airport Gardens, South Estes, and Estes Park.
Will these kids grow up to be college roommates? Probably not. They do interact and form friendships though and I'd say probably on an "above average" scale compared to most affluent suburban towns around the country. I agree that the differences become more apparent to them all in middle and high school. I will say though that when I was still in undergrad at UNC, my girlfriend and I both volunteered as tutorw at Hargraves Community Center and worked alongside some Chapel Hill High seniors who were black and hispanic and grew up in the aforementioned "have not" neighborhoods. Those guys were often much sharper and fit for tutoring their peers and the middle schoolers and underclassmen than me; the white guy who grew up in a well-off household in Cary/Apex!
Sorry, I should have qualified my remarks. I have family living in Southern Village and have visited there dozens of times over the years. I felt like I was in an episode of Pleasantville the very first time I was there and my opinion hasn't changed in the years since. I just don't think it's representative of life in the Triangle, it's more like a sociology experiment gone awry. If I found out it was designed by the Disney Corporation I wouldn't be the least bit surprised; it's disproportionately expensive to buy in, it's perfectly designed and everyone that lives there smiles like they're paid to do so.
As for your North Raleigh dig, I'm not really sure what that's all about. There's nothing plastic or cliched about my neighborhood at all. The neighbors tend to keep to themselves, the houses are on at least one acre lots and I only talk to my neighbors if I really want to (heck, I've been waving to some people for eight years and don't have the slightest clue what their names are).
That is NOT my experience at all as far as kids interacting with different social groups, but again my kid is in elementary school. My kid does have friends in lower socio-economic groups and has been over to their apartments. Maybe that's the way it is in SoVill and Meadowmont schools (less interaction, more stratification) but in Carrboro and my part of Chapel Hill it's much more chill. I don't know first hand about the high schools but while I'm sure there is some socio-economic divide but I think there is more crossing of it too.
ETA: I asked my 5th grader about a haves/have not divide at her school and she said not really.
I think it happens more in middle and high school. I'm on the north end. Kids went to Morris Grove elementary, Smith middle, and East Chapel Hill.
To be clear, my kid knows which kids have nicer houses and which kids, like her friends, live in 1 bedroom apartments, but the friendships aren't stratified along socio-economic lines.
Agree with your observations, michgc, but then again that isn't any different from adults and I suspect this is the case just about everywhere-- it's just human nature.
I have two sons at East CHHS. My one observation is that high schools in the CHCSS are real pressure cookers. Based on conversations with other parents in the Triangle, my impression is that Chapel Hill/Carrboro schools push students harder with more material and more difficult material. The AP classes are no joke! The students are highly motivated and competitive. These aren't bad things, necessarily, as long as a student can handle the stress that this can bring.
I am actually really glad to read this! I have a sixth grader who is currently flying through Compacted Math 7 and we applied to have him in the LEAP program. He is getting straight A grades and says the schools here are a lot easier than the Minnesota schools that he attended through fifth grade. He needs to stay challenged!
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