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I'm another one of those people that have been lurking for months and finally decided to post. We just moved to the Triangle this summer from Winston and are currently renting until at least next summer while we learn more about the area towns/neighborhoods and builders and figure out where we want to buy.
When I'm out touring Parade Homes by different builders, what details should I be looking for to distinguish quality differences? For example, I can easily walk in and see which builders are using pre-finished flooring and which are finishing the hardwood onsite and I can easily see the extensiveness of crown molding in one house over another. But what other/more subtle differences should I be looking for to distinguish value for money? For reference, if it matters, I'll be looking primarily at 4BR/3BA ~3500sf homes in the $500s (I realize those spill into the $600s+, sometimes due to land costs).
Look beneath the finishes.
Walk through homes that are framed up, trades completed, prior to insulation, by any builder you might consider.
Look for:
tight framing, to avoid future nuisance drywall cracking due to movement.
16" O. C. studs in all walls. 16" or 19.2" O.C. floor joists/truss joists, whatever. 24" O.C. floor framing takes the decking span to maximum, and makes for loud floors, along with bouncing like a trampoline but within code tolerances.
quality of lumber. Wane, splits, knots, bowing and twisting, finger-jointing(!).
amount of orange paint and rework markings on framing. A good framing crew will not require 100 gigs for rework. I have seen amazing amounts of rework required, and quality springs from building it right the first time, not band-aiding junk.
evidence of glue between the floor joists and the floor deck, so you know that it is well adhered.
neatness of the jobsite
neatness of the housewrap
flashings under all fibercement joints.
evidence of builder involvement, and not reliance on the city/county inspections department as the prime quality assurance program.
Run your (clean) hands across painted walls and feel for crappy drywall sanding.
Open the kitchen and bath cabinets and look at the quality-how much of the cabinet is pressboard and how much is real wood?
If there is an attic that is unfinished (or any other unfinished interior space, really), look at the neatness of the construction.
Check door and window fit.
Be conscious of interior finishes that look high-end but are not. This is especially true in your price/sf range-you are basically looking at tarted up tract homes.
It would be helpful to look at homes built by local custom builders with a long standing reputation in the marketplace even if they DON'T fit your criteria just to see how things should be done.
Run your (clean) hands across painted walls and feel for crappy drywall sanding.
Open the kitchen and bath cabinets and look at the quality-how much of the cabinet is pressboard and how much is real wood?
If there is an attic that is unfinished (or any other unfinished interior space, really), look at the neatness of the construction.
Check door and window fit.
Be conscious of interior finishes that look high-end but are not. This is especially true in your price/sf range-you are basically looking at tarted up tract homes.
It would be helpful to look at homes built by local custom builders with a long standing reputation in the marketplace even if they DON'T fit your criteria just to see how things should be done.
ALWAYS do comparisons! Check out some of Dickerson's homes (custom builder) to compare to others.
A few things I notice about tract builders (and some are VERY good) versus custom builders...
Custom builders tend to have high end finishes: more moldings, real tray ceilings, 5" or 6" baseboards versus 4", site finished hardwoods versus engineered (although there are varying levels of engineered flooring), mirrors with frames (bathrooms) instead of plate glass. BUT...these are all cosmetics.
And...these cosmetic finishes made the difference between $1.25 per sq. ft. versus $1.85 per sq. ft. So, you do pay for these things.
Some of the tract builders use less expensive windows versus high end windows Custom builders use better HVAC units, more insulation. Instead of building TO code, most custom builders will build ABOVE code.
There ARE some tract/production builders that build to a higher standard. Those that have "green" features and are energy efficient standards tend to be of a higher quality.
In the end, it all comes down to what the buyer wants and needs and can afford. Everyone has the right to make their own decision without being made to feel bad about it!
Thanks all three for your responses so far. You all are spot on in the comparisons I'm trying to make between mid to high end tract builders vs custom builders because I think the price range I'm looking at ($500-600K for a 3000-3500 sf house) is right where those two cross over. Our home in Winston was a custom home resale, but there were no comparable tract homes to compare it to; there just isn't tract housing in Winston at price points >$400K.
Vicki, it's funny that you mention Dickerson as I've been into a couple of their homes and have really liked them (that was prior to the Parade of Homes; I haven't been into any of their Parade houses yet). Granted, one was $700K+ in Barton's Grove, but I've also been into two of their homes in Briar Chapel and liked the finishes I saw (though not necessarily the floor plan). What other custom builders might you recommend that would offer similar value to what Dickerson offers? WRT track builders, I was in the Saussy Burbank and Weekley model homes at 12 Oaks a while back, but I don't remember now what I liked or didn't like. One of them had pre-finished engineered hardwood, which is a deal breaker for me. I refuse to pay $500K+ for a house that doesn't have real hardwood floors finished onsite. I was also in the Meritage model home at The Legacy at Jordan Lake and didn't like it at all. I have no idea what the bones of the house were like (though I can make some guesses at $115/sf) but I thought the fit and finish was noticeably bad.
FC, you touched on an interesting point about interior finishes that look high end but are not. I understand that's a concept that tract builders use to keep costs down on what looks on the surface to be a great house, but can you give some specific examples of what to look for when touring homes?
Finally, I will say before somebody else mentions it that I'm not set on new construction. However, looking at new construction still gives me an idea on which builders I might like to target for a resale home if we go that route.
FC, you touched on an interesting point about interior finishes that look high end but are not. I understand that's a concept that tract builders use to keep costs down on what looks on the surface to be a great house, but can you give some specific examples of what to look for when touring homes?
Finally, I will say before somebody else mentions it that I'm not set on new construction. However, looking at new construction still gives me an idea on which builders I might like to target for a resale home if we go that route.
The best example of a "tarted up tract home" I can offer is a builder that no longer appears to be in business in this area-ForeverHome.
They were very good studies of the quality homes being built in the area and they did a very good job with exterior elevations to give the homes really good curb appeal/first impressions. If you looked hard, though, you could see that they got it about 90% right. The 10% that was "off" was the cheapness of the materials used-stone that was a funny color, proportions not quite right, cheap plastic shutters that looked like real wood ones, that kind of thing.
When you got inside, they were using all of the hot paint colors, the espresso kitchen cabinets, the wide plank flooring, lighting designed to mimic high end stuff.
When you started looking deeper it was painfully obvious that the homes were absolutely slapped together.
Two things I am particularly sensitive to-
Cabinet quality. Open drawers and doors-do they feel solid? Do the internal shelves look like they will hold up?
Flooring. I will always pick site-finished floors given the choice.
We went from a tract home that I would consider pretty well built to a custom home that is light years better. We gave up square footage to do so, and also left West Cary. We were not willing to put a 3000 SF home on .14 acres (Highcroft/Cameron Pond size lots).
I agree with Vicki that Homes By Dickerson builds a very nice product. I am also consistently impressed with Future Homes by Jim Thompson. There are quite a few others that are in various states of being active in different price ranges-off the top of my head...
Any of the above (and others I am not intentionally omitting) build a home that you could use as a benchmark.
The middle ground for me-
Saussy Burbank
Robuck (not their custom division)
John Weiland
Garman (disclaimer-my brother is building a Garman home right now and their people and processes are extremely impressive at the price point)
Orleans
Builders that would not make my short list-
Savvy
Ashton Woods
Toll Brothers
Ryan
Ryland
Terramor
David Weekley
M/I
Thanks all three for your responses so far. You all are spot on in the comparisons I'm trying to make between mid to high end tract builders vs custom builders because I think the price range I'm looking at ($500-600K for a 3000-3500 sf house) is right where those two cross over. Our home in Winston was a custom home resale, but there were no comparable tract homes to compare it to; there just isn't tract housing in Winston at price points >$400K.
Vicki, it's funny that you mention Dickerson as I've been into a couple of their homes and have really liked them (that was prior to the Parade of Homes; I haven't been into any of their Parade houses yet). Granted, one was $700K+ in Barton's Grove, but I've also been into two of their homes in Briar Chapel and liked the finishes I saw (though not necessarily the floor plan). What other custom builders might you recommend that would offer similar value to what Dickerson offers? WRT track builders, I was in the Saussy Burbank and Weekley model homes at 12 Oaks a while back, but I don't remember now what I liked or didn't like. One of them had pre-finished engineered hardwood, which is a deal breaker for me. I refuse to pay $500K+ for a house that doesn't have real hardwood floors finished onsite. I was also in the Meritage model home at The Legacy at Jordan Lake and didn't like it at all. I have no idea what the bones of the house were like (though I can make some guesses at $115/sf) but I thought the fit and finish was noticeably bad.
FC, you touched on an interesting point about interior finishes that look high end but are not. I understand that's a concept that tract builders use to keep costs down on what looks on the surface to be a great house, but can you give some specific examples of what to look for when touring homes?
Finally, I will say before somebody else mentions it that I'm not set on new construction. However, looking at new construction still gives me an idea on which builders I might like to target for a resale home if we go that route.
There was a subdivision put in behind me in the last 5 years and DJF did not hold a candle to Llyod. I custom built my house 20 years ago and am preparing to put engineered hard woods on second floor. I proudly told the installer that the current carpet is installed on 3/4 ply tung and groove put down with liquid nails (not partical board). Wm Barker was my custom builder and I recommend him highly. Also, a neighbor had lost their 800k house to a fire and Bost construction is doing a great job right from engineered plans. See you banker about getting a construction loan based on the land as colatteral.
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