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Old 09-17-2016, 09:33 PM
 
Location: My House
34,937 posts, read 36,122,580 times
Reputation: 26547

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
A new Leaf battery is ~$6,000 with install and trade-in factored in.

You can expect at best 8 years on it until you get serious degradation in performance.

$6,000/8 years = $750/yr in 'gas'. That's $62/month or the current equivalent of about 12,000 miles a year in gas. Best case.

I'm sure it's a cool car. I really do. My Volvo has 190,000 on its original engine and gets its oil changed once a year.

Until electrics can approach the economics of an ICE, they are a novelty and nothing much more IMO.
Our Leaf is leased for 220 a month and we already have an L2 charger in the garage.

We leased our first Volt. We bought the other two and after knocking them down to GM employee prices and subtracting the 7500 back on each of them (we pay enough taxes to get every dime of the 7500 per car), they were very affordable cars. And? I haven't pumped gas in about 2 years.

So, for most people, a lease makes the most sense. For others, buying might. It depends.

I do not miss gas stations.
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:34 PM
 
Location: My House
34,937 posts, read 36,122,580 times
Reputation: 26547
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppydog View Post
Nah, they're a non-polluting means of getting around this country. Definitely not a novelty and definitely the way it will be in the future. I'm no gear-head, but they are really good cars. The Tesla is wicked fast and even the little Leafy is super quick off the block — not that I drive that way.
Yeah. We are fans of not adding to the air pollution.

We love the Volt, btw. They're really fun cars to drive.
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Old 09-18-2016, 05:43 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,202,292 times
Reputation: 1324
This is all very fascinating. If not for media coverage of the leak, I doubt few, if any, stations would run out of fuel. The pipeline leak has not stopped distribution, only slowed it down. There are two pipelines. One is still functional and is able to move gas, but more slowly. The problem is, gas sales have skyrocketed in the last couple of days. This would have caused stations to run out of gas even in normal conditions. Now that word has gotten out about stations running out of gas, things are about to get ugly.

Also, it seems peculiar that most of the reports of being out of gas are coming from Sheetz stations. They must have a really lean supply chain.
 
Old 09-18-2016, 06:43 AM
 
634 posts, read 909,141 times
Reputation: 660
Per the news:

Colonial Pipeline announced Saturday it is beginning construction of a temporary pipeline that will bypass a leaking section of its main gasoline pipeline in Shelby County, Alabama.
 
Old 09-18-2016, 06:46 AM
 
634 posts, read 909,141 times
Reputation: 660
Quote:
Originally Posted by BullCity75 View Post
The pipeline leak has not stopped distribution, only slowed it down. There are two pipelines. One is still functional and is able to move gas, but more slowly.
Regarding the distillates (second) pipeline, I've wondered if this is the time of the year where they'd normally be pumping heating oil on that line.
 
Old 09-18-2016, 08:48 AM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,640 posts, read 36,603,028 times
Reputation: 19847
Quote:
Originally Posted by BullCity75 View Post
Also, it seems peculiar that most of the reports of being out of gas are coming from Sheetz stations. They must have a really lean supply chain.
I thought the same thing.
 
Old 09-18-2016, 08:50 AM
 
2,464 posts, read 4,153,061 times
Reputation: 2349
Many small towns are already "dry" due to people panicking. Triangle area news sources are not pounding this story to the masses very heavily.
 
Old 09-18-2016, 09:46 AM
 
13,811 posts, read 27,349,266 times
Reputation: 14244
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
Our Leaf is leased for 220 a month and we already have an L2 charger in the garage.

We leased our first Volt. We bought the other two and after knocking them down to GM employee prices and subtracting the 7500 back on each of them (we pay enough taxes to get every dime of the 7500 per car), they were very affordable cars. And? I haven't pumped gas in about 2 years.

So, for most people, a lease makes the most sense. For others, buying might. It depends.

I do not miss gas stations.
I think your post gives several great examples why we aren't there yet.

1) If you purchase an all electric car, it makes way more sense to lease it these days because of depreciation and longevity issues (while this is the way cell phone buying is headed, I wonder if "owning" cars will go this way as well?)

2) If you purchase an all electric car, most families will need more than one car, either to travel, haul, or carry larger loads

3) One of the major reasons plug in cars are remotely competitive with their ICE counterparts is due to massive government and manufacturer subsidies. Sustainable?
 
Old 09-18-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: NC
11,202 posts, read 8,246,380 times
Reputation: 12412
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post

3) One of the major reasons plug in cars are remotely competitive with their ICE counterparts is due to massive government and manufacturer subsidies. Sustainable?
I'm not sure where I fall on the whole electric car thing. I don't own one, so certainly not fully convinced yet, but I'm intrigued.

As for the subsidy argument, it's not really that cut and dry. The subsidies are to establish infrastructure and to get the initial launch "over the hump" so to speak. Without similar support from our Gov't, we'd not have the internet. The NY Subway System would not be in place, and for a more recent example (a controversial one), look at Solar power. It was not at all sustainable (pun notwithstanding)at first, but is now becoming a viable part of energy grids where conditions are favorable. It is quickly becoming economically justified.
 
Old 09-18-2016, 10:44 AM
 
Location: NC
11,202 posts, read 8,246,380 times
Reputation: 12412
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
A new Leaf battery is ~$6,000 with install and trade-in factored in.

You can expect at best 8 years on it until you get serious degradation in performance.

$6,000/8 years = $750/yr in 'gas'. That's $62/month or the current equivalent of about 12,000 miles a year in gas. Best case.

I'm sure it's a cool car. I really do. My Volvo has 190,000 on its original engine and gets its oil changed once a year.

Until electrics can approach the economics of an ICE, they are a novelty and nothing much more IMO.
These are great points, which I hadn't considered, but need to...

On the flip side, with an Electric:
  • No oil to change.
  • No engine coolant or radiator problems.
  • No transmission oil to leak or clutch to replace.
  • No catalytic converter to replace.
  • No muffler or tailpipe to rust or replace.
  • No timing belt.
  • No spark plugs.
  • No omission testing needed.


I don't know if that adds up to $1k per year, probably not, but it mitigates much of it...
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