Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not going to slam you, but it is statements like this one that I find disturbing:
" Perhaps, taken as an overall school system one could step back and see the value. But I'm not concerned with the global, I'm concerned with the local--my 3 kids."
WCPSS doesn't have the luxury of only having to be concerned with providing a quality education for just your 3 kids.
Well, correct, North Raleigh Guy, and also wrong. And I don't pretend to know the whole answer, but I find that the BOE and discussion groups have been too binary in their thinking. For instance, as the logic goes, if the BOE is concerned about individual students the schools will suffer, or on the flipside that the only solution to this problem is to spread the problem around.
The challenge is that we - collectively as a county society which MUST be responsible for all - have concentrations of children who need herculean help if they are going to succeed. The solution to that has been: bus them so that individual SCHOOLS don't get bad grades. Studies have shown that this does not help 'my three kids' if I were someone who lived in East Raleigh. But we don't hear from them because they are voiceless pawns so far in a great society experiment.
My current working thesis is that if we DO concern ourselves with the INDIVIDUAL demographic educational needs for neighborhoods, ALL children will get more of what they need uniquely. And then the schools will become maybe even MORE successful. Until then, the schools are just simply OK and there are lots of kids still not only lost but becoming disconnected from important relationships with their teachers and community leaders in their own neighborhoods. My school principal said to me when our F&R was to increase this year "we don't have the services right now that THESE children need". Different students need different levels of support.
newsobserver.com | Wake insists reassignment helps poor students (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/education/wake/reassignment/story/921502.html - broken link)
Abigail Thernstrom, a senior fellow with the Manhattan Institute, a policy research organization that supports school choice.
Thernstrom said more effective teaching is the best method for educating low-income students -- not reassignment. "It seems to me the most unfortunate statement to say if your parents don't make a certain amount of money, the school doesn't know what to do with you except to have you sit next to more- affluent kids," Thernstrom said. "I don't like that message."
Yeah, so its uncomfortable for everyone to look at the elephant in the living room: many of these children are also of certain ethnicities. But I think that by ignoring the discussion of race or even making it too OVERLY important, we are missing out on something . I think maybe this could be just a variable in the equation of our differences and look to see how we can build something really wonderful there for the characteristics that make these kids unique and beautiful?
No one is turned away at the door of a Wake County school for reason of race anymore, and that is a wonderful thing. So, now let's focus on educating each family of 'my three kids.' They are unique. They are wonderful, and they all need something a little different from neighborhood to neighborhood. So what? Let's stop pretending that only one set of variables or one size fits all can lead to success.
Busing isn't solving the problem. And I personally think its adding to the problems. I want our BOE to be CREATIVE and think of what WILL work to educate kids without pretending they should all be the same. Our differences are what make us great.
Geoffery Canada has done some phenomenal things in Harlem using only what it costs per student for public schools. We need to take our blinders off.
I don't believe NChomesomeday was intending to say the school system should only be concerned about her children at all and that they should not take a holistic approach to managing the school system. IIRC, neither MrsSteel nor NRG have kids, so I can understand their misinterpretation of this...I probably would've done the same prior to having a child. However, after being a parent for a few years now I realize just how much a parent truly does become so concerned with the "local" - their own children!
What I do believe NChome was saying was that WCPSS seems to have little concern for individual students and are more concerned on their global image as a school system. I agree with this sentiment, especially after hearing of multiple rezonings, insanely long bus rides, inconsistent course offerings, etc...
[quote=convergent;3056738]IMany of the private schools are pretty full and have waiting lists. I also think that their enrollment periods probably happen and end before you might know that a reassignment was going to take place, but I'm not positive of that. quote]
Thales Academy in Apex is a new private school opening this Fall. They have a good track record with their Franklin Academy in Wake Forest. Compared to other private schools, they are phenomenally affordable (4800 I think?). They have been set up by an entrepreneur, not doing it for the money, but because he is so concerned about what public school is doing to our future leaders. The teaching, as I understand it, is a style more traditional and closer to the way European schools teach (which, btw, kick our US butt in standard tests.)
They are taking applications for kids K - 6 NOW and have currently have many seats. Not for long, as people find out, though. Kindergarten, I hear, is what's filling up the fastest.
...Sounds to me that a bunch of folks here need to run for the school board. So - whose names need to go no the placards for election?
No - really. there are lots of opinions showing substantially more knowledge than I have or than I have access to. You see the solutions, you really ought to go for trying to fix the solution.
Especially if the "creative" solutions help the overall scenario, and don't just shift the pain back to certain groups. A solution that simply moves the problems around isn't a solution.
IMO - it's much too simplistic an answer to say that the bussing is just plain bad, and that the average socio-economic makeup of a school has NOTHING to do with how it performs. I'd also say we're in a rather different situation than Harlem, so I'm not sure that those techniques will always apply. But if there are solutions proving me wrong - I'd love to be wrong here.
Mdp_az, I may not have been blessed with children, but that does not mean that I do not appreciate the concern of parents for their individual children. The only thing I was trying to say - and that I believe NRG was trying to say - is that it's a very complicated situation. I agree that Wake is concerned with the over-all appearance of their school district. Afterall, when people first consider moving to this area and when companies consider moving here, they first look at the school system as a whole. So I can see why Wake would be concerned with this.
Again, I'm not saying it's perfectly wonderful or anything like that. Just saying that I can understand some of the reasoning behind the policy. It's just a shame that it isn't living up to what it could be.
[quote=RaleighBoundGeek;3061751]...Sounds to me that a bunch of folks here need to run for the school board. So - whose names need to go no the placards for election?
quote]
Yes, one of the things definitely needed over time are some fresh ideas on the school board. There are a variety of groups in Wake County working on the many heads of this Hydra. Some are working long term, for instance, Take Our Schools Back which is focused on at-large elections, and Wake Cares which has been fighting for parents to have a choice whether to send their children to year round or not. Only one so far has a short term solution: Keeplocalschools wants to stop reassignments with an injunction. I know there is another one focused on legislation....maybe that's Take Our Schools Back that I'm thinking of.
Also, there is yet another organization which is trying to coordinate parent groups like these. It is called OVER but it doesn't have a website yet.
I found this website with a kind of a summary
Organizations (http://www.wakeschoolfacts.org/Organizations.htm - broken link)
I think part of the problem these parents are fighting is that they are parents who, understandably, are very focused on how this affects them as individuals. To fight this properly, they need to stop thinking like parents and start thinking like politicians and policy makers.
People who run Wake County are concerned about the marketability of this area and a major part of that is schools. If there's a pocket of town where the schools perform very poorly - the inner city schools - then that looks bad for the city. But if there's a way to make all of the schools perform well, then that makes the city far more attractive to investors.
Frankly, I don't think the main purpose of the diversity policy is to help these poorer children. I think it is a way to tackle a problem by spreading it throughout the community. That doesn't mean that poorer students cannot benefit from this in some way. It seems that for them, the main benefit comes from a teacher's standpoint. It's notoriously difficult to keep teachers in inner-city schools - even if you offer benefits not given to teachers in wealthier schools. I have friends who've tried it, but the job was too overwhelming (The students were not as motivated to do their work and the schools tended to be quite dangerous). A teacher may not be able to handle a classroom full of inner-city kids because they require so much more time and attention. Afterall, these kids often come to school dirty with no food in their stomachs & little support or encouragement from home. It's a daunting task for one teacher to face dozens of children like that every day. However, a few of these children in a class full of other children who come from wealthier, more stable backgrounds makes the job far easier on the teachers. They can do their jobs better. Perhaps gifted children from troubled neighborhoods are less likely to fall through the cracks in an environment like this.
Again, that's if the policy was implemented the way it should be. It isn't. But I suspect that this is one of Wake County's goals. If you want to fight the school board's policy, you have got to find a way to fight these points. You've got to show them that this idealized goal isn't working & you've got to show them a plan that benefits the entire school system as a whole. You need strong, logical arguments backed up with good statistics. Passioned, emotional arguments and stories about individual students won't cut it. The board has become numb to these pleas. You have to think the way they think ... and rightly or wrongly, they are not just thinking about one Little Johnny, but tens of thousands of them.
I don't believe NChomesomeday was intending to say the school system should only be concerned about her children at all and that they should not take a holistic approach to managing the school system. IIRC, neither MrsSteel nor NRG have kids, so I can understand their misinterpretation of this...I probably would've done the same prior to having a child. However, after being a parent for a few years now I realize just how much a parent truly does become so concerned with the "local" - their own children!
What I do believe NChome was saying was that WCPSS seems to have little concern for individual students and are more concerned on their global image as a school system. I agree with this sentiment, especially after hearing of multiple rezonings, insanely long bus rides, inconsistent course offerings, etc...
You took the post right out of my mouth! Thank you. And I can give rep points to you, even if you have to spread yours around!
Mdp_az, I may not have been blessed with children, but that does not mean that I do not appreciate the concern of parents for their individual children. The only thing I was trying to say - and that I believe NRG was trying to say - is that it's a very complicated situation. I agree that Wake is concerned with the over-all appearance of their school district. Afterall, when people first consider moving to this area and when companies consider moving here, they first look at the school system as a whole. So I can see why Wake would be concerned with this.
Again, I'm not saying it's perfectly wonderful or anything like that. Just saying that I can understand some of the reasoning behind the policy. It's just a shame that it isn't living up to what it could be.
I don't doubt your concern for the children. And I agree with you and NRG that it is a very complicated situation. But mdp_az was able to get my subtle point probably because he (she?) is a parent. That's not to slam anybody. I'll be the first to admit it's much easier to step back and take a global view until you become a parent.
Also, if you look at my post #16 on this thread, you will see how strongly I feel about neighborhood schools and why I believe they work so well.
I'm not advocating all parents immediately pull their kids out of WCPS. Obviously the system is working very well for many. But for me, personally and what I'd want for *my* three kids--WCPS don't provide it. So instead of being part of the problem, should we move down there, we'll make our own solution. We'll either settle in another county or send the kids to Catholic school.
It's nice to have choices and it's a luxury that not everyone has and that is unfortunate.
I don't doubt your concern for the children. And I agree with you and NRG that it is a very complicated situation. But mdp_az was able to get my subtle point probably because he (she?) is a parent. That's not to slam anybody. I'll be the first to admit it's much easier to step back and take a global view until you become a parent.
It's not that I (as a person without children) don't understand your point. I just don't agree that it's valid.
In a group, jockeying for the best possible outcome individually regardless of the consequences to the group you're in often leads to lower outcomes for all individual. Each of the competing individuals tend to block each other, so that noone gets what they want.
And the purpose for WCPSS is to do the most good for the largest group, so the priorities of the few only import when they fold in to the greater good.
And - like it or not - that's a rather insensitive assumption to make. The "you wouldn't understand" stuff just doesn't wash.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Private school
