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Hello All,
My husband and 2 daughters (2 years, and 6 months) are hoping to relocate from the NYC area this Spring/Summer and we were hoping that we could get some information to help us narrow our search of the different areas that surround Raleigh. We are interested in learning more about Cary vs Holly Springs vs Apex. What are the main differences in "feel" between these towns? We have visited Raleigh in the past and got the feeling that it is a lot of subdivisions with a lot of shopping centers etc. We are primarily interested in our home maintaining good value, good schools, good shopping (possibly some nice boutiques), good restaurants (not chains), and an active family friendly community that has a lot of things going on for kids, and of course low crime etc. The job we are looking at would be a convenient commute to these areas.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
I personally don't find much a "feel" difference between any of those three. They are all just mass sprawl and suburbia, not that I personally find that bad, it's not for everyone. You are not going to be driving and notice absolutely any difference when you cross from Cary into Apex. The city / town shapes are so oddly laid out, you'll need a GPS just to know if you are physically in Apex or Cary in certain areas anyway.
The decision to include Holly Springs in the matrix would have more to do with your work locations than anything else. That may or may be a reasonable commute depending upon where you end up working. You will get more house for the money there than in West Cary, but a much longer commute depending upon work location.
Like everyone else who asks this question, you are likely to discover that after you arrive and start house shopping, you decision will have much much more to do with commuting distance, and whether or not you like a specific neighborhood, than whether or not that neighborhood resides in Apex or Cary. The distinctions in neighborhood feel / vibe is much larger in my opinion than the differences between Cary or Apex.
Well, in real estate they say "location location location".
Historically, in general across our great land, this has primarily meant proximity to employment centers. New outer development prices can pop, because people like new shiny stuff, but if they have no other substance, other than offering new build, then they might not age well. As the hype fades, and people move further out into newer and shinier development (after all, what's another 10 minutes onto the commute), then prices could suddenly level and/or drop, especially in a down market, and this attributes to their volatility. Older closer-in neighborhoods/towns, first built because of their convenient location (low-hanging fruit), will always be closer to the city (employment center) which offers an intrinsic value that tends to be more stable. Less risk, less reward; it is like growth stocks (outer burbs) vs. value stocks (inner burbs). Having said this, technology allowing more and more people to work from home might be changing the dynamic by allowing some outer burbs, once considered a "crazy commute", to hold relatively more value... even in a down market.
Really though, I don't think basing a home purchase primarily on investment potential is the way to go. It should meet your needs/wants first and if it holds value over time.... yay..... you lived there for "free" and enjoyed all the benefits. If it significantly appreciates in value, then this is a bonus! Expecting 7-20% return (not that you are) is usually not realistic -though some people still have that mindset even after the housing bubble. That kind of return usually leads to affordability issues and is not healthy for the community and is not sustainable over the long run = crash.
2. Regarding the "feel" of these different towns/suburbs.
It is very subjective and you will get lots of stories and opinions on here (see below for mine ). However, the best thing to do is visit for a while and get a good professional (Realtor) to show you around. They will help find a home in an area that best fits your needs and desires... a lot better than any of us... and maybe even better than yourself (really good realtors seem to know what you want/need even better than you yourself do). I was reminded of this after reading a recent thread/question similar to yours. The person was fixated on Holly Springs and Fuquay-Varina.. said that it looked soooo good online from afar. They got lots of feedback from locals on CD about those towns as well as other Triangle areas to consider. Well, that person just posted they visited and met up with a Realtor who helped them discover Bedford in Falls River (a neighborhood in North Raleigh). They seemed pretty excited and, looking back on the thread, I think it really will be a good fit for them.
Our Story = About 3 years ago we moved from newer build in the southern part of Apex, on the Holly Springs border, to the downtown Cary area because of the conveniences. We found ourselves going through or by Cary to go to and from work (30-45 minutes). Then, after getting home, we would often find ourselves back in Cary to eat dinner out and/or enjoy a little recreation (parks, greenways). On the weekends... back towards Cary for more recreation at WakeMed Soccer Park, Bond Park, Lake Crabtree County Park or Umstead State Park....and maybe do a little shopping..... and eating!
Now we are 15-20 minutes to work in RTP AND DT Raleigh. Also, 5 minutes to WakeMed, Crabtree, Bond and Umstead. We are living in a very diverse area surrounded by unique ethnic eateries (plug for Boshphorus) and some cute little shops (plug for Everything is Better Monogrammed -they did wonders for our Christmas stockings). Traffic is not that big of an issue as both the infrastructure and population are established and most of the "kinks" have been ironed out. We are happy with our school assignments for the kiddos. Our home is relatively smaller and older, but that is not what we valued/needed; to us, it is a quality of life thing. We do have what is considered, now-a-days, a larger yard with lots of mature trees (tree house here we come). We also just like the "feel" or "vibe" of older parts of towns and more established neighborhoods. To us, "old Cary", is some weird way, represents a nice blend of urban, suburban and small town.
Opinion on the "feel" (vibe) = Cary and Apex are old railroad towns that have grown up with Raleigh. Towards their eastern borders, they have older downtown areas with some character and history. Holly Springs is mostly all brand new suburban in-fill... I refuse to even call it a town.... just pure suburban sprawl (similar to western Cary and Apex). It kind of feels soulless to me, no sense of place. Holly Springs... I'm not a fan (regulars on CD probably have picked up on this).
Open Google maps and imagine a vector arrow pointing from downtown Cary southwest through Holly Springs. As you move west and south, a gradient forms and certain things become evident. First, you are moving further from the employment centers (Raleigh and RTP). Also, things tend to get newer and more sterile (less diverse, less character, less "flavor", less unique, less free-spiritedness). IMHO, it becomes more Truman Show/Stepford Wives/Wisteria Lane-ish... more about appearances and keeping up with the Joneses. Cary, as a whole, gets a bad rap for this; but, it is plenty apparent in much of Apex and Holly Springs too.
Finally, not sure if you are wanting to avoid northeast transplants... but it seems a popular thing to do.... especially with people from NY avoiding other people from NY????? Anyways, no avoiding them; it is a total myth Cary is the only place they move to. In fact, anymore, I would argue Apex, Holly Springs and Wake Forest are much more popular with fresh northeast transplants because it is perceived the dollar stretches a little further there. I hear the thickest NY accents when I am down in newer parts of Apex and Holly Springs or up visiting my father-in-law in Wake Forest.
Last edited by ncrunner77; 01-27-2017 at 01:59 PM..
Reason: add accents
This has been the case in long standing metro areas like Boston and NYC. You will pay a pretty penny to be a short commute to those cities.
Being close to RTP and other employment centers will make your house hold value.
I don't see the downtown correlation here - at least as far as downtown Cary is concerned,but I can see that area gentrifying.
I don't think that it is being close to downtown Cary that holds value, but that being close to downtown Cary also means you are relatively close to both the major employment centers of DT Raleigh and RTP (roughly 15-20 minutes commutes to both). Also, having SAS up the road, along with MetLife and all the other employers along Weston, doesn't hurt.
About the gentrification of downtown Cary, I can see it too and believe it to be a real possibility.. it has some momentum and is on the edge. Every other time I pick up the Cary News it seems there is another business opening or another development happening downtown. I went to a town meeting a couple months back where a Fonville Morisey agent stood up and said they are seeing a noticeable uptick in interest in the downtown Cary area.
Just yesterday, in the late morning, I took our two little boys to the library downtown and had what I call a "Zen moment". Lots of other strollers and toddlers in hand going up and down Academy... some grandparents sitting on one of the new benches, across from the park under construction, reading newly checked out library books to their grand kids. I could just envision coming out of the library with the kids and walking over to the fountains and new park to play and have a picnic and then maybe walking to the arts center for another activity and then walking to get a snack at La Farm Bakery or Fresh Ice Cream Shop. Also, my kids walking to school at Cary Elementary.... and my wife walking to the Mayton Inn for a Spa treatment or brunch with friends and me walking to Pharmacy or Bond Brother for some local draft beers with some buds. I totally got warm fuzzies and goose bumps. Priceless! Especially compared to loading the kids in the car and drive here, then load them back up and drive over here, and then back in the car to go there.. and so on and so forth. Maybe it was the perfect weather (65 under mostly sunny skies with only a few quick rolling low storm clouds) after so many cloudy damp days... or... the sun rays shooting across the church steeples and landing on the old school (art center), still... a Zen moment.
I don't think that it is being close to downtown Cary that holds value, but that being close to downtown Cary also means you are relatively close to both the major employment centers of DT Raleigh and RTP (roughly 15-20 minutes commutes to both). Also, having SAS up the road, along with MetLife and all the other employers along Weston, doesn't hurt.
About the gentrification of downtown Cary, I can see it too and believe it to be a real possibility.. it has some momentum and is on the edge. Every other time I pick up the Cary News it seems there is another business opening or another development happening downtown. I went to a town meeting a couple months back where a Fonville Morisey agent stood up and said they are seeing a noticeable uptick in interest in the downtown Cary area.
I think downtown Cary is moving in the right direction which is why I lumped it in there with downtown Raleigh. I think it's more of the fact that it's an established area so home prices will be pretty stable vs. West Cary where everything is new and growing and you don't know how values will play out eventually.
Yes, I like the area around downtown Cary a lot. I hope there aren't a lot of tear downs of the houses there. It reminds me of the town I grew up in on Long Island. I could see living there one day. Not moving my kids again though. But this is what I am talking about with "vibe" - downtown Cary is pretty dissimilar to where I live, which is "old" West Cary - but I still like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncrunner77
I don't think that it is being close to downtown Cary that holds value, but that being close to downtown Cary also means you are relatively close to both the major employment centers of DT Raleigh and RTP (roughly 15-20 minutes commutes to both). Also, having SAS up the road, along with MetLife and all the other employers along Weston, doesn't hurt.
About the gentrification of downtown Cary, I can see it too and believe it to be a real possibility.. it has some momentum and is on the edge. Every other time I pick up the Cary News it seems there is another business opening or another development happening downtown. I went to a town meeting a couple months back where a Fonville Morisey agent stood up and said they are seeing a noticeable uptick in interest in the downtown Cary area.
Just yesterday, in the late morning, I took our two little boys to the library downtown and had what I call a "Zen moment". Lots of other strollers and toddlers in hand going up and down Academy... some grandparents sitting on one of the new benches, across from the park under construction, reading newly checked out library books to their grand kids. I could just envision coming out of the library with the kids and walking over to the fountains and new park to play and have a picnic and then maybe walking to the arts center for another activity and then walking to get a snack at La Farm Bakery or Fresh Ice Cream Shop. Also, my kids walking to school at Cary Elementary.... and my wife walking to the Mayton Inn for a Spa treatment or brunch with friends and me walking to Pharmacy or Bond Brother for some local draft beers with some buds. I totally got warm fuzzies and goose bumps. Priceless! Especially compared to loading the kids in the car and drive here, then load them back up and drive over here, and then back in the car to go there.. and so on and so forth. Maybe it was the perfect weather (65 under mostly sunny skies with only a few quick rolling low storm clouds) after so many cloudy damp days... or... the sun rays shooting across the church steeples and landing on the old school (art center), still... a Zen moment.
I think downtown Cary is moving in the right direction which is why I lumped it in there with downtown Raleigh. I think it's more of the fact that it's an established area so home prices will be pretty stable vs. West Cary where everything is new and growing and you don't know how values will play out eventually.
West Cary will hold up because of the proximity to RTP and it's close to the toll road that will eventually connect with 40. I am not sure how much prices will go UP there, but you never know.
1.
Holly Springs is mostly all brand new suburban in-fill... I refuse to even call it a town.... just pure suburban sprawl (similar to western Cary and Apex). It kind of feels soulless to me, no sense of place. Holly Springs... I'm not a fan (regulars on CD probably have picked up on this).
O
ouch!!! I have the opposite feeling about Holly Springs. It's the first place I've lived since I moved to the USA (in 1991) that I feel is home. I run into people I know all the time, we have an awesome run club, I love the parks and greenway spaces here. It's the perfect place for family life IMO. I wouldn't leave.
West Cary will hold up because of the proximity to RTP and it's close to the toll road that will eventually connect with 40. I am not sure how much prices will go UP there, but you never know.
But isn't West Cary already priced very high, relative to the rest of the area? And new construction comes with higher property taxes as well.
As someone who relocated to the Triangle as well, I laugh about how prospective transplants are drawn to certain areas like flies to a light. We did it too, starting with the Wonderful Land of Chapel Hill before expanding our options and finding exactly what we wanted elsewhere for much less.
Holly Springs is a lovely area. The new developments appear well planned with lots of amenities and interesting home design. The downtown area is that of a small town but includes a great library space with an entertainment venue, and a great and growing park system with various sport fields. Not too far from the town center there are large but new shopping centers with lots of places to eat and a new restaurant-style movie theater, along with all the usual shops like Pier One, Hallmark, clothing, Michaels, etc. To call it "in-fill" is to not know the definition of that word. Instead, it is a growing suburbia, expanding into the countryside, although the town council is also actively encouraging companies to locate there.The future will see how well that works, but meanwhile it is a great place for families to live.
"Where can I get a great Mexican cheesesteak pizza in Holly Springs?"
Holly Springs is not booming because people are moving there to be unhappy there. It is booming because people are finding something they want.
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). However, the best thing to do is visit for a while and get a good professional (Realtor) to show you around. They will help find a home in an area that best fits your needs and desires... a lot better than any of us... and maybe even better than yourself (really good realtors seem to know what you want/need even better than you yourself do). I was reminded of this after reading a recent thread/question similar to yours. The person was fixated on Holly Springs and Fuquay-Varina.. said that it looked soooo good online from afar. They got lots of feedback from locals on CD about those towns as well as other Triangle areas to consider. Well, that person just posted they visited and met up with a Realtor who helped them discover Bedford in Falls River (a neighborhood in North Raleigh). They seemed pretty excited and, looking back on the thread, I think it really will be a good fit for them. 
