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You guys in Raleigh are experts at distorting the truth to prop up Raleigh. Rnc2bmfl talks about Nashville above. You can read his comments above. He states that due to the enormous land area of Nashville’s MSA it is viewed differently than Raleigh. That is correct because the MSA is the standard measurement not the CMSA. Nashville’s MSA is 1.9 million compared to Raleigh’s 1.3. Nashville’s central core is much larger than Raleigh’s. Raleigh’s CMSA is about 100 K larger than Nashville’s. So no Raleigh is not nevesssarily larger than Nashville’s. But to be honest neither could handle the influx of 50 K employees or 150K people in a sort time in addition to its normal growth. This is why Amazon will chose a top 10 market that is better suited to handle the growth.
The Triangle has a more populated urban area than Nashville.
Raleigh's MSA + Durham's MSA together have an almost identical population to Nashville, but in less than 62% the land area of the Nashville MSA.
The Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill CSA has 170K+ more people in a land area that's 71% the land area of Nashville's CSA. In fact, the Triangle's CSA has nearly 300K more people in less land area than Nashville's MSA.
The Triangle continues to grow faster than Nashville.
The Triangle has 2 urban cores.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not ok (pages 114 & 115)
Amazon or not, this is an illustrative example or why being two separate MSAs hurts the Triangle.
The Triangle has a more populated urban area than Nashville.
Raleigh's MSA + Durham's MSA together have an almost identical population to Nashville, but in less than 62% the land area of the Nashville MSA.
The Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill CSA has 170K+ more people in a land area that's 71% the land area of Nashville's CSA. In fact, the Triangle's CSA has nearly 300K more people in less land area than Nashville's MSA.
The Triangle continues to grow faster than Nashville.
The Triangle has 2 urban cores.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not ok(pages 114 & 115)
Amazon or not, this is an illustrative example or why being two separate MSAs hurts the Triangle.
Lol NOTHING against Nashville but their CSA covers nearly 7,800 sq/miles in order to get 2 million residents. So in my mind, I already see the Triangle as being larger than Nashville. Also, the Triangle adds more people per year than Nashville (and has a larger metro GDP). In fact, at $135 billion per year metro GDP of Raleigh+Durham, I do believe that the Triangle would be the largest metro GDP in the state of Ohio. Clearly the Triangle is larger and financially stronger than many of us tend to give it credit for. The recent numbers that I've seen are quite impressive.
Let me make a few things perfectly clear. I do not like to see Charlotte vs Raleigh comparisons and, I do not think this is one. I have grown tired of reading on various forums (Charlotte and Greensboro and maybe others) of the Raleigh homers inflating and being deceptive about your population numbers. I have decided to start calling you out. I have nothing against Raleigh. But it is a matter of simply being accurate in your posting. If you do not know the data, look it up before posting. But this happens on other forums too....not just Raleigh's. But it happens much more often on Raleigh's.
rnc2mbfl is a perfect example of this. He states that the Triangle Urban Area is much larger than Nashville's. Really? I would like to see proof of that. Please tell me where I can find that info. I am not going to be able to find it because it doesn't exist. This is just more mumbo jumbo thrown out by the Raleigh homers.The Triangle does not have an urban area. Raleigh has an urban area with a population, according to the US Census Bureau, of 884,891 in 1707 square miles. The Nashville Urban Area has a population of 969,587 in 1720 square miles. This is 2010 data. I am not certain where rnc2mbfl is getting his data. The Census Bureau has not released any new data on urbanized areas since the last census.
Who the hell cares? Raleigh, Wake, Triangle whatever you want to call it is growing incredibly fast. If you are slicing and dicing up the area to fit some narrative, that’s on you.
rnc2mbfl continues by stating that the Raleigh and Durham MSA populations combined have a population almost identical to Nashville's MSA but in less than 62% of the land area. While this statement is true, it is also deceptive. The separate Raleigh and Durham MSAs are not one entity. They are two separate MSAs. The Census does not combine them into one MSA. You guys in Raleigh want to tell the Census Bureau how to do their jobs and, you want to make up your info. If you combine the Raleigh and Durham areas then it becomes a CSA. The Ral-Dur-CH CSA has a po[pulation of 2,199,459 in 7319 square miles. The Nashville CSA is 2,027,489 in 7847 square miles.
rnc2mbfl states that the Raleigh and Durham MSA populations have an almost identical population to Nashville's MSA population but in only 62% of the land area. Ral-Dur-CH is more populous in fewer square miles. But the Ral-Dur-CH CSA land area is 93% of the Nashville CSA land area not 62%.
Nashvillle's low density can be at least partially blamed on its extensive freeway network. Freeways do lead to lower densities and urban sprawl. Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville and Raleigh- Durham all have lower densities. That can be both good and bad.
Getting off subject for just a moment, I am not a hater of other cities. I am an advocate of all NC cities including Raleigh. I think the larger cities of NC should work together to attempt to get more dollars from state government. I understand that the larger cities are competitors to a degree but, they would benefit by working together.
That said, all NC cities and metros need to become more dense overall. I don't know if continuing to build more and more freeways is the answer. Transit has to become prevalent with higher densities along those transit lines.
No I am not slicing and dicing. You guys in Raleigh want to continue to use metro, MSA and CSA interchangably. And you always want to attach the 2.1 million population to all three. I am okay with you guys using 2.1 million as long as you state it is the CSA population. MSA is the standard for metro population. So, when using metro, you should use 1.3 million. I am just tired of you guys inflating your numbers. I notice that you never error on the side of deflating your numbers. Homers do this kind of thing.
Jeepcsc needs to understand that the Raleigh homers are using data to fit a narrative. I am using US Census Bureau data. I wish the Raleigh homers would do the same.
I am only wanting to make a point at how ridiculously deceptive and misinformed some are on this forum. rnc2mbfl states that the Ral-Dur-CH CSA has 170K more people in 71% of the land compared to the Nashville CSA. Once again this is bad info. I agree on the 170K but, Nahville's CSA is 7847 square miles compared to the Ral-Dur-CH CSA's 7319 square miles. So, the Ral-Dur-CH CSA is 170K more populous in 93% of the land area of Nashville not 71%.
rnc2mbfl goes on to state that the Triangle's CSA is 300k more people in less land area than Nashville's MSA. I am not sure where rnc2mbfl gets his data. I use US Census Bureau data. First, why would anybody compare a CSA to an MSA. That is comparing apples and oranges. The Raleigh CSA is 300K more populous than the Nashville MSA as suggested by rnc2mbfl. But it is certainly not smaller than Nashville's MSA land area. The Ral-Dur-CH CSA land area is 7319 square miles compared with the Nashville MSA land area of 6378.
I agree that the Ral-Dur area is growing faster than Nashville. But if you were to go to Nashville, you would think that Nashville is much larger than Raleigh or the Raleigh MSA or the CSA. Nashville's downtown is much larger than Raleigh's. And as pointed out earlier, the Nashville Urban Area is 8.5% more populous than the Raleigh Urban Area. The Raleigh area has a large portion of its CSA population on its periphery. That is fine but, it does not create the feel of a true city. That is why Nashville looks and feels much larger that Raleigh.
I understand that what rncmbfl was stating earlier. He stated that many do not understand the makeup of the RDU area. I understand it very well. The area is divided into three prongs. And this puts much of the population on the periphery and 25 miles from downtown Raleigh. The makeup does not allow for Wake County to easily become the central county for the entire region including Durham and Orange Counties. The dispersion of the population centers and employment centers are negatively impacting the region's desires to become one MSA. But the Census Bureau and the OMB are not going to change their criteria to appease the Raleigh's desires. But some two prong metros such as Dallas Ft Worth, Miami Ft Lauderdale, Minneapolis St Paul and San Fran Oakland, to name a few, have overcome this obstacle. The central counties in these regions dominate their areas. Consequently, each of these regions have only one MSA.
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