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The biggest issue I've seen with Indian immigrants is they like to live around each other and you get these large subdivisions that are full of 1st gen immigrants who don't know how to assimilate into being American. Their kids are good as they attend schools and quickly adapt but it's an issue from what others have told me about buying into one of the communities that they've taken over.
That's not an issue with just Indian immigrants. Nor would I say their subculture is stronger or weaker than others. Maybe you should take a trip to Chicago or NY where there are heavy Greek communities and people from Greece moving. Questions include, "Where are the apartments where I would be near other Greek people" or "What neighborhoods are majority-Greek?"
If I moved to India, I would prefer a neighborhood with other Americans.
Regardless of what country, in my case, if my reason for moving to a country was for purposes of harvesting their dollars using whatever legal loopholes I could, I would probably take on the attitude of "when in Rome do as the Romans do" rather that try to build my own microcosm that reminded me of home and allowed me to have my cake and eat it too. I would do whatever it took to blend into the host country and do things in a way that helps preserve the integrity of *THEIR* culture and custom, rather than try to fragment it by trying to make it more like where I grew up.
Regardless of what country, in my case, if my reason for moving to a country was for purposes of harvesting their dollars using whatever legal loopholes I could, I would probably take on the attitude of "when in Rome do as the Romans do" rather that try to build my own microcosm that reminded me of home and allowed me to have my cake and eat it too. I would do whatever it took to blend into the host country and do things in a way that helps preserve the integrity of *THEIR* culture and custom, rather than try to fragment it by trying to make it more like where I grew up.
If only Yankees had that attitude about the Triangle.
I think it's safe to say that people can both preserve their culture and embrace the culture of the area where they move. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.
And, I think that most H1B workers do exactly that.
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That's not an issue with just Indian immigrants. Nor would I say their subculture is stronger or weaker than others. Maybe you should take a trip to Chicago or NY where there are heavy Greek communities and people from Greece moving. Questions include, "Where are the apartments where I would be near other Greek people" or "What neighborhoods are majority-Greek?"
Having known many of them when living in NJ I don't disagree but the huge difference is they come from first would countries with first world mannerisms.
"A businessperson from North Carolina pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit visa fraud for submitting false and misleading information in support of at least 183 initial H-1B petitions and 100 H-1B extension petitions, according to the US Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of North Carolina. The falsification brought in at least $26.2 million in revenue for three firms: Kronsys Inc., Cygtec Inc. and Arkstek.
The defendant, Sairam Yeruva of Cary NC., faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine according to the US Attorney’s Office.
Yeruva’s petitions H-1B petitions claimed the workers would be at specific locations in Raleigh, NC, or Aurora, Colo., and paid the prevailing wage throughout the entirety of their H-1B status, according to the US Attorney’s Office. However, the workers were provided to clients throughout the US and many workers were benched without pay while between assignments."
Hmm, when I was a software contractor, my assignments were "all over the country" and when on the bench I was not paid, that is just standard procedure in the contracting business. So, what the point of this is, I couldn't tell you.
However, lets just get down to the nub of it. H-1B Visas are a sham where people are hired because (a) they can be paid slightly less, and (b) they can easily be coerced into working a lot of hours for no extra pay. The overall effect being that they look like they are officially paid standard rates, but are actually paid far less per hour than should be.
At the same time, they mostly produce crap. Because they are foreigners? No, because they are not experienced. The program is supposed to be bringing in the cream of the crop - experienced programmers. Yet, in every shop I worked with H-1Bs, they barely knew how to write simple code. These "children" are mostly hired right out of the diploma mills, cribb to pass interviews when they cannot outright cheat on the online exams, then labeled "qualified" and shipped to America to start their lives making $45-$65 an hour as experienced, professional, skilled H-1B developers. Many of them, because they are willing to work hard will gain some skills during their time in the barrel, but because they have no clues as to how to actually "engineer" software - as opposed to slapping it together - they will likely fail - to be covered up by others who are responsible for their work.
Why can't we provide these same opportunities to young American programmers?
The current model of American senior developers leading offshore teams is loaded with skilled local programmers working great hours to correct the flood of bad programming submitted from offshore.
Like the offshore people, many of the H-1Bs here work in blind silos of effort and never are given the "big picture" of the design - because there is no big picture design, at least none that is documented. They struggle to get their sections of code completed, and then it fails integration (or even unit) testing because of that same lack of design and documentation.
Even if such documentation items existed, they are never maintained; changes are made on the fly and not communicated to those who need to know so these unskilled developers who barely know how the development language works are sent back to make correction without knowing what (or why) it is broken. But... They will grind out the hours making "fix and try" corrections through the night until someone says it's good enough - or some other crisis supplants the criticality of the current problem.
The whole problem with the H-1B program is that it is built on old "cowboy" coding practices and not proper engineering because middle managers believe that the number of hours put into the project are the only metrics that count and that the design and documentation aspects don't matter at all. (I once had a manager complaining that I was wasting time designing - and that he wanted to see some code ASAP.) They don't see the time spent thinking and designing as "productive." Crack the whip, and we will get more out of these people! Anyone with real software engineering experience knows that this is bass-ackward and the real reason huge software programs fail.
A perfect example is the Healthcare.Gov website. It is so fragile that I bet there are no efforts to fix it - else the whole thing will collapse. When you have a program such as this where after you have enrolled, selected a plan, and have been accepted; YET you are forced to reapply (a complete new application) just to change the mailing address on your application there is really a lot of things that have gone wrong. Bad programming like this can cause your coverage to be thrown into limbo while you are re-evaluated for coverage that was already settled. You may even be rejected or have a change in coverage cost - all because someone couldn't figure out how to manage applicant supporting information - separate from critical program requirement.
The web is full of examples of these failed or just barely working software put together by unskilled H-1B labor. H-1B is just a sign of, and a band-aid put in place to try to get around the true cost of software development. If American Management was not so uninformed, there would be no need or desire for this program.
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 02-05-2019 at 01:42 PM..
Regardless of what country, in my case, if my reason for moving to a country was for purposes of harvesting their dollars using whatever legal loopholes I could, I would probably take on the attitude of "when in Rome do as the Romans do" rather that try to build my own microcosm that reminded me of home and allowed me to have my cake and eat it too. I would do whatever it took to blend into the host country and do things in a way that helps preserve the integrity of *THEIR* culture and custom, rather than try to fragment it by trying to make it more like where I grew up.
Easier said than done - try moving to another country. But really though, you CAN do both things.
Having known many of them when living in NJ I don't disagree but the huge difference is they come from first would countries with first world mannerisms.
So what exactly are you saying here? That people here are used to "first-world mannerisms" so it's okay that a Greek person wants to live with only Greeks? Or that you consider "first-world mannerisms" nicer and more upscale/sophisticated than the "developing world mannerisms?"
Last edited by Universe93B; 02-05-2019 at 05:09 PM..
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