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Old 12-09-2019, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
2,390 posts, read 951,758 times
Reputation: 1852

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hey_guy View Post
no disagreement one comment though

Do you think it was for a racial hatred or the fact, over time, the south let its economy become so defined around the institution they felt their only choice was to fight to preserve it or face economic irrelevance. Obviously an irony if you're a slave.

I do think the above is a valid economic because it mean the elites were really fighting for their power.
Its an interesting question which has some "Chicken or the Egg" qualities to it. (It also could be a topic for a different board, so if this gets deleted, I'll understand that)

I recently read a book called "American Nations: A History of the Eleven Regional Cultures in North America" which traces the history of the 11 different cultures/geographies in the US/Southern Canada/Northern Mexico from first contact til now.

The author's main point basically is that Yankeedom (New England north of NYC, over to Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota) has been in a battle for the soul of America with the areas called Tidewater (DC/VA/Northern NC) and the Deep South since the country was founded. Yankeedom, founded by Calvinists, sought freedom, education and viewed citizen involvement in Government as a check on tyranny.

Ironically, the people who founded Yankeedom and Tidewater/Deep South backed different sides in the English Civil War....which they did again here.

TideWater was founded by the English gentry and viewed feudal societies as the path forward; where Liberty was defined as a privilege gained by the few, afforded them societal existences that others could only reach over time.

Deep South was founded by and styled after a West Indies slave societal structure; where Government Regulation was a threat to the Liberty that few had privilege to.

So in a sense, both Tidewater and the Deep South viewed the system as the way to exist economically. It should be noted that the original plan for the CSA was for it to stretch southward all the way to South America. Many of the "What if the South had won" books lay out their plan to bring the French in and build out an empire in Central/South America.

So, from a leadership's POV, they viewed the system as the path forward and had plans beyond the borders of the CSA in 1861.

The Chicken and the Egg part is "did they have power because of Slavery or did they have slavery because of their power". To me, the Southern leadership would have been significantly less powerful without slavery as free labor provided for them their power/influence. I mean if "Plantation Owner Jones" had to tend to his own plantation and or pay labor to do so, he would have been significantly less powerful. The 3/5ths Compromise speaks to this as well.
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:00 PM
 
2,064 posts, read 1,064,811 times
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American Nations is an outstanding book. I read it several years ago and recently reskimmed it.
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Old 12-09-2019, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Where the College Used to Be
2,390 posts, read 951,758 times
Reputation: 1852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Teach View Post
American Nations is an outstanding book. I read it several years ago and recently reskimmed it.

Agreed. I was in the middle of re-reading Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari and had someone mention it in a conversation we were having.

Had to pause my re-reading of Sapiens because I couldn't put American Nations down (if you can say such thing about a book on an iPad).
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Old 12-09-2019, 04:33 PM
 
1,047 posts, read 769,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
It's only a matter of time before all Xmas parades are nixed. Who knows what will be offensive next year. The color combination of red and green may be next. It's impossible to predict.
Think of the colorblind! Will anyone think of the colorblind?!?
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Old 12-10-2019, 01:11 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
12,884 posts, read 20,558,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
It's not about groups that are or are not marching, it's about groups with their own agenda showing up to disrupt things. All you're doing is letting these people win by cancelling.
So, if the anti confederate groups signed up to march in the parade, and pro confederate groups were going to protest, then who would be the disrupters?

I agree with free speech, but I also agree that organizations should think carefully before pushing their political agendas by marching in what's essentially a parade that's all about children. There's a time and place for those discussion in the public square, but this is neither the time nor the place.
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Old 12-21-2019, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Wake Forest
2,835 posts, read 6,810,875 times
Reputation: 2050
Being a now long time resident of Wake Forest in relative terms, no was not born here, nor did not grow up here, was not educated here, but moved to the area due to a job relocation. Of all the areas we searched when relocating we chose Wake Forest. Why, because it reminded us where we came from. Very similar look and feel. That was then and this is now.

Wake Forest has grown up, figuratively as well as physically. The Wake Forest parade had gone on for 72 years prior to this year. Don't know of any controversy over those past 72 years, but I am sure there was some albeit among friends on the size of their floats or where there placement was within the parades participants. Or even the day it was taking place.

After reviewing this thread I too started to get lost and caught up in the bantering back and forth among the posters. It wasn't until I glanced over to a number of Christmas Cards I have on my desk that I was able to snap back and realize this parade as all parades are about people and mostly families coming together to have a good time. It allows adults to flash back to parades they had seen when they were children and passing that same feeling they have now down to their children and grandchildren. Its about seeing local school bands marching and playing Christmas songs that are filled with family members and neighbors family members. Its about that ear to ear smile you see when your child see cartoon characters walk by and shake their hands. Its about that candy zinging by your head being thrown from the various groups in the parade as they march along. Its seeing your Aunt , Uncle, Cousin, Friend, Neighbor, co-worker up on that float waving as they pass by, its about that twinkle in all our eyes both young and old get when old Saint Nick goes by in his sleigh waving at each and everyone of us. Its about a Christmas Parade in ole Wake Forest. That is the Wake Forest Parade I came to know and love.......

After reading this thread ole Wake Forest may be in its twilight years consumed in threats, anger, hatred, and separation, and that is very very sad.

Ole Saint Nick's spirit is about love, happiness, giving, kindness, and most of all brotherly love. If you do one thing this Christmas Season remember to do it with love. And in the words of Forrest Gump; "That's all I have to say about that'.
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