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Old 12-26-2020, 05:17 PM
 
9,265 posts, read 8,195,270 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Funny my daughter was talking about how nice DT Cary is the other day and I told her it was dump when we moved here - we never went there and would never consider going there or that the kids would ever hang out there. I love that they like it and it's a good place to hang out, especially since she has friends on the other side of town.
Every time I go to DT Cary it's a little bit more impressive. Once the rest of the park is done it's really going to be something I think. Drove through the other night just to check out the trees and lanterns and I couldn't believe how many people were walking up and down Academy. Not sure if there's more people out and about due to the pandemic, or the opposite.

Still a need for more restaurants....I'm sure that will come though. Speaking of which what's the new place across from the park on Academy?

Edit: https://mccuisines.com/
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Old 12-26-2020, 06:23 PM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
13,966 posts, read 24,000,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserNamesake View Post
I still hear chatter from some of the longer time residents about IBM, but never related it to the Western Wake boom.
You can easily make a strong argument that IBM was the main catalyst for Raleigh/Wake success since the late 60s. IBM was the reason why that stretch of I-40 was accelerated between Wade Avenue and RTP/Durham Freeway. What is now the Wade Ave Extension was I-40 before it swung around the bottom of Raleigh in early 80s. That's entirely a western Wake story into itself. At the time of IBM's commitment to RTP, it had its initial Triangle presence in Raleigh on Yonkers (as in NY) Rd. The initial stretch of I40 allowed IBMers to go back and forth between their Raleigh office and RTP on freeways.
Raleigh and Wake owe a lot of their success to IBM.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,069,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserNamesake View Post
I think a convenient answer could be the rich retirees coming from the North ... but I dont wanna give you Yanks that much credit...



...another answer could be proximity to higher paying Jobs at RTP with its workers choosing to settle in the west... but I don't think that entirely answers it either... Just wanna know all the variables that contributed to this phenomena that's lead to this concentration of wealth. If you look at the income map (aside from a smaller surface area of North Wake), there's no part of the county that's even remotely close.


I'm sure there's some historical context too.
yep to the first.
nope to the 2nd.

simple as that.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Beautiful and sanitary DC
2,477 posts, read 3,481,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserNamesake View Post
...another answer could be proximity to higher paying Jobs at RTP with its workers choosing to settle in the west
Every city has a "favored quarter" -- the rich side of town, the right side of the tracks, etc. In most of the US, it's upriver/uphill/upwind of the downtown; because mid-latitude prevailing winds are from the west, the FQ is usually the west side. It's often anchored by the kinds of institutions that rich people favor: obviously country clubs, but also big corporate offices, nicer shopping centers, private hospitals, colleges/universities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl View Post
The growth along this arc drove infrastructure investment along it, which drove more growth.
Because the FQ has the political power and institutional weight, it ends up with better infrastructure, which reinforces its privilege.

Raleigh's FQ was always to the northwest: Hayes Barton, Cameron Village (and later Crabtree / North Hills), Carolina Country Club, Rex Hospital, Meredith College, etc. Since Umstead and RDU got in the way of its outward expansion, it forked to the north and west -- the west definitely aided by the establishment of a vast new white-collar job center at RTP.

The income map still shows a definite "wrong side of the tracks" in Raleigh, west vs. east across the Norlina Subdivision railroad -- roughly, Atlantic Ave.

Durham's FQ is also towards RTP, but Wake has long grown much faster than Durham. It certainly seems plausible that Raleigh was more welcoming to the initial 1960s-70s wave of RTPers than Durham, which was still counting its tobacco/Duke money. By the time tobacco collapsed, Durham's softer, deindustrializing economy left it ill-situated to invest in public services to attract commercial development, and besides by then Raleigh was already the more important growth pole.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:43 PM
 
773 posts, read 636,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
Every city has a "favored quarter" -- the rich side of town, the right side of the tracks, etc. In most of the US, it's upriver/upwind of the downtown. It's often anchored by the kinds of institutions that rich people favor: obviously country clubs, but also big corporate offices, private hospitals, colleges/universities.
Yes, this. Absolutely true. Look at the west and northwest side of Greensboro and Winston-Salem, and the south and southeast parts of Charlotte, for example.
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Old 12-26-2020, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
25,118 posts, read 16,069,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UserNamesake View Post

There you go. ^

... and moving East, eh? Hmmmmm... would be nice for more wealth distribution....

Wow. Really, really good historical context. I knew there was more to it.

I still hear chatter from some of the longer time residents about IBM, but never related it to the Western Wake boom.

It seems most don't know that Dr Goodnight bought Preston out of bankruptcy somewhere around 1990 when there was a real estate "crash".

Cary was basically "nothing" for an upper-income crowd until then. Look at the size of homes built from 1975 - 1989 in North Raleigh v. Cary.
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Old 12-26-2020, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
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Durham WAS always west of Roxboro Rd, ie W and SW, not on the RTP side.

Some might also be shocked to know that back in the day (pre-about 1987), from W Durham we took Cornwallis through the Park to hit what's now 147 (and it didn't run into Downtown Durham), and hook into I40 at the 147/40 merge. There was no 40 from 147 through the Park and SW Durham/Chapel Hill and hooked into 40 at the west end of Hillsborough. Thus, to go west we used to have to go 15-501 to 751 to 70W to 85.
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Old 12-26-2020, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Beautiful and sanitary DC
2,477 posts, read 3,481,217 times
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Yeah, took another glance at a map I did a while ago of Raleigh & Durham:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/paytonc/5279283804

For Durham, the FQ is definitely more southwest (the Duke-UNC axis down 15-501) than south.
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Old 12-26-2020, 11:50 PM
 
3,223 posts, read 3,507,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m378 View Post
Say what you want about West Cary, but they did a lot of things right. When I was commuting to RTP, I had the choice of three major thoroughfares: Davis Drive, 55, or 540. There are other options too like taking Green Level Church to 55. The conveniences of living in that area can't be found anywhere else in my opinion as far as shopping goes, as well as access to other areas of the Triangle.

Apex and Holly Springs haven't done as good of a job. Apex (South of Downtown) and Holly Springs really require the use of 540 to get to RTP. 55 in Apex is a nightmare (not their fault as they can't widen due to the railroad bridge I believe), and Holly Springs is one way in one way out even to get to 540. The superstreet or whatever it's called with the u-turn requirement, isn't doing the trick it seems.
Proximity was my reason to moving here when we relocated to Wake county in 2006. We could have moved to more central or even further south but Davis and 55 were only 2 lanes, traffic on I40 was miserable through the park, so we picked as far North in West Cary as we could find. 15 minutes door to door home to work. Despite road improvements, additional density has made that 20 min (when I used to have to commute).
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Old 12-27-2020, 08:37 AM
 
Location: South Beach and DT Raleigh
13,966 posts, read 24,000,674 times
Reputation: 14759
Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
Every city has a "favored quarter" -- the rich side of town, the right side of the tracks, etc. In most of the US, it's upriver/uphill/upwind of the downtown; because mid-latitude prevailing winds are from the west, the FQ is usually the west side. It's often anchored by the kinds of institutions that rich people favor: obviously country clubs, but also big corporate offices, nicer shopping centers, private hospitals, colleges/universities.



Because the FQ has the political power and institutional weight, it ends up with better infrastructure, which reinforces its privilege.

Raleigh's FQ was always to the northwest: Hayes Barton, Cameron Village (and later Crabtree / North Hills), Carolina Country Club, Rex Hospital, Meredith College, etc. Since Umstead and RDU got in the way of its outward expansion, it forked to the north and west -- the west definitely aided by the establishment of a vast new white-collar job center at RTP.

The income map still shows a definite "wrong side of the tracks" in Raleigh, west vs. east across the Norlina Subdivision railroad -- roughly, Atlantic Ave.

Durham's FQ is also towards RTP, but Wake has long grown much faster than Durham. It certainly seems plausible that Raleigh was more welcoming to the initial 1960s-70s wave of RTPers than Durham, which was still counting its tobacco/Duke money. By the time tobacco collapsed, Durham's softer, deindustrializing economy left it ill-situated to invest in public services to attract commercial development, and besides by then Raleigh was already the more important growth pole.
All true. I debated talking about the NW quadrant being the city's favored quarter as you did, but I decided not to. I'm glad that you added that additional context.

What's particularly interesting to me is that over the last decade +, the favored quarter has begun to lose its total grasp. Investment has come to places in Raleigh that would have been hard to imagine 20 years ago. However, this creates a new problem: gentrification that leads to displacement.
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