city of oaks to city of concrete (Raleigh, Durham: sales, apartment)

[kirk902]

Im a little concerend with all of the development going on around in Raleigh. This city is known as the city of oaks and all of our tree's are being cut down for more buisinesses or new condos. We must find a way to preserve our tree's in the city. I believe that the leaders of Raleigh are trying to make it look like another Atlanta or Manhattan. When I look at larger cities like Manhattan or Los Angeles all I can see are just concrete but when I look at Raleigh all I see is tree's and in the next 10 to 20 years it wont be like that anymore.

[I'minformed2]

Ironically enough.... the reason for all of the growth that si causing the trees to be replace with concerete is because of people moving here seeking wooded lots and houses on bigger peaces of land. sheep on a field.

[PDXmom]

kirk902, I currently live in Portland, Oregon. We have a non-profit organization called Friends of Trees. (You can google them for more info). They have been instrumental in educating the public and helping to change laws to protect trees. You have to get a permit to cut down a tree in the city of Portland and it's not cheap or easy to do. Often times your neighbors have to agree to the tree being cut down unless the tree is diseased. And diseased trees most be properly removed and replaced with another tree.

Friends of Trees also buys trees for wholesale, sales them to people for wholesale prices, and helps the homeowner plant the trees. Mostly they plant along the beautification strips in our neighborhood. I'm not sure what the do in more suburban locations.

A few years ago we planted 5 trees on our little 5000 sq foot lot with them. It was great... they recommened what type of trees will do best, dug the hole and then we volunteered on a work crew to plant our trees and the trees of 5 other neighbors. It's does wonders to build community too. My kids love pointing out the neighborhood trees that we helped plant.

Friends of Trees was started by people who like yourself did not like seeing old trees cut down and wanted to do something about it. I'm sure they would be happy to talk to you about starting a similar group in Raleigh or how to go about changing the tree laws in your area.

You can google Friends of Trees or pm and I'll send you the contact info.
Good luck!! An old tree is worth saving... so many stories it could tell if it could talk.

[NCHomeFinder]

It is sad to see production builders just bulldoze an entire area, then plant these puny trees in the front yards after they put in houses. I'm all for affordable housing for everyone, and I know it costs more to save the trees during the building process. It's interesting to see neighborhoods like this where they've bulldozed the entire place except for the few "green areas" they have to keep, then in the restrictive covenants, they tell residents not to cut down any trees. Seriously.

[MikeJaquish]

Originally Posted by NCHomeFinder

It is sad to see production builders just bulldoze an entire area, then plant these puny trees in the front yards after they put in houses. I'm all for affordable housing for everyone, and I know it costs more to save the trees during the building process. It's interesting to see neighborhoods like this where they've bulldozed the entire place except for the few "green areas" they have to keep, then in the restrictive covenants, they tell residents not to cut down any trees. Seriously.

Unfortunately, we vote with our checkbooks, not our principles. Homebuyers care less about trees compared to buying all the home they can get.
When we stop buying that type of housing development, there will be less of it.

How many square feet will the average buyer forfeit to save trees? Close to zero, I think.

The perversely funny thing is to go past a $700,000 home and see a straggly half dead pine that SHOULD have been removed, while knowing better mature trees were taken down.
Then you see whole neighborhoods of Bradford Pears, that will likely not outlive a 30 year mortgage.

[NCHomeFinder]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

Unfortunately, we vote with our checkbooks, not our principles.

"we vote with our checkbooks"
"we vote with our checkbooks"
"we vote with our checkbooks"
"we vote with our checkbooks"

he shoots..... he scores!

(How's that game, btw?)

I agree 100% - the same phenomenon has caused the McMansion epidemic. I think we're seeing a bit of a backlash, though, as areas like North Hills are revitalized. There will always be entry-level housing, and I would rather see more people able to buy instead of renting, but it's either a house or trees.

That's funny - what is it with the Bradford Pears, anyway? I guess if all the mailboxes look alike, then all the trees match, then pretty soon you'll accidentally pull into your neighbor's garage.

[RaleighRob]

Trees, forests, wetlands, etc get destroyed by development at alarming rates when an area's predominant form of growth is suburban sprawl. The cities/towns continuously spread out, taking all this unprotected land and such. And then of course air quality also suffers cuz everyone's burning more gas to get out to these far-flung sprawl-out places.

Fortunately, there's an alternative. In most cities, including almost all the cities and towns in this state, there is a ton of land already well inside the city limits ripe for infill development, which is a heck of a lot less likely to destroy forests, wetlands, etc. This is usually land that had already been developed (or, at least, already impacted by development) than can be built upon with less impact. And it benefits the cities, because things like new streets, new utility lines, water pipes, etc, aren't needed for infill development.

Carrboro and Chapel Hill are two local cities that have been doing decently well at encouraging infill development over sprawl. Durham and Raleigh are learning, although in baby-steps. Hopefully this trend will grow more.

Basically, it'll be a beautiful day when American society as a whole begins to value more the idea of building UP instead of building OUT.

[PDXmom]

Originally Posted by RaleighRob

And then of course air quality also suffers cuz everyone's burning more gas to get out to these far-flung sprawl-out places.

I currently live in Portland, which has historically had very strict Urban Growth Boundary Policies. In th 70s and 80s people decided they did not want to be an LA so they inacted very stringent laws. (Unfortunately, they are not being challenged... but thats a can of worms I won't open today.)

As a result of strict Urban Growth Boundary Policies, Portland has been very successful at building up. An old warehouse district on the edge of downtown is now full of million dollar lofts (all of about 1000 sq feet). Portland also has many old neighborhoods where the standard sized lot was 5000 sq feet... I think that is .13 of an acre. Portland is also very successful at infill. In fact there is political talk that those people with double lots (10,000) sq feet will be taxed extra on their "buildable" lot. It's a way to force people to sell for infill.

The downside of infill and growing up is traffic. The more people in the same area equals more cars, more grid lock, and poor air quality. When I moved to Portland 20 years ago it was rare to have a air quality advisory day in the summer. Now we get them often in the Summer and even in the Winter. And Portland has one of the most progressive mass transit systems on the West Coast and some say in the country. Even with this and many walkable neighborhoods we still have traffic and air quality issues.

The other side of infill and strict Urban Growth Boundary is homes are VERY expensive. (Not So. Cal expensive.) But a starter home (3 bdroom 1 bath fixer, 1200 sq feet... unfinished basements are included in the sq footage here... so really you are getting 900 ish sq feet above ground) in a safe neighborhood starts at 350K.

I am very much in support of controling development. But I don't know what the answer is here. I see "evils" on both sides of the coin. If you guys figure it out, let me know, because I've been pondering this one for a few years now.

[RaleighRob]

Originally Posted by PDXmom

The downside of infill and growing up is traffic. The more people in the same area equals more cars, more grid lock, and poor air quality. When I moved to Portland 20 years ago it was rare to have a air quality advisory day in the summer. Now we get them often in the Summer and even in the Winter. And Portland has one of the most progressive mass transit systems on the West Coast and some say in the country. Even with this and many walkable neighborhoods we still have traffic and air quality issues.

Oh certainly mass transit and improved fuel efficiency are still gonna be part of the equation. But still...having people close together with less traveling, and more alternative options (walking, biking, bus, etc) would still be better than every single person driving an hour or so to work in individual cars/SUVs, right? I can't see how it wouldn't be.

The other side of infill and strict Urban Growth Boundary is homes are VERY expensive.

This is one thing that would need to be addressed early on. Chapel Hill is just now beginning to address it, with minimum requirements for developers on a certain percentage of new homes having to be "affordable". Is it working? WAY too early to tell. But it's an idea.
A few of the new downtown apartment buildings in Raleigh have a certain number of units set aside for lower incomes...this too is a start in the right direction.
But yes...more would need to be done to avoid this problem going out of control.

[mikeandali]

I hear what you're saying. I live in PA and am in the process of moving back to NC (we lived there about 10 years ago)...the development up here is truly disgusting. The local governments only see tax revenues coming in (and ironically, they're democrats, historically more environmentally minded) at the expense of greenspace. Rain run off has been redirected to already flood ravaged creeks and streams and the roadways have not been addressed causing traffic routes to become equally destroyed.