I'll be visiting the Triangle for the first time (Raleigh: theater, to live in)

[Francois]

You "probably" will get carjacked in parts of Durham? As in, if you go to certain parts of Durham it's more likely that you'll get carjacked than that you won't? I think that's overstating it a bit.

Naturally, any area is going to have areas "more likely" for X and that also means areas "less likely" for X.

In Durham, yes, you're at (much) greater risk for crime in the Central/SE parts like Holloway St and S Alston Ave than you are in Forest Hills or Old West Durham. Surely this isn't a surprise; you could fill in the blanks with addresses in Raleigh, Cary, or anywhere else.

Get a crime map from the police department and naturally it will be concentrated in certain areas, and others will have almost nothing marked.

[West_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by Francois

Naturally, any area is going to have areas "more likely" for X and that also means areas "less likely" for X.

In Durham, yes, you're at (much) greater risk for crime in the Central/SE parts like Holloway St and S Alston Ave than you are in Forest Hills or Old West Durham. Surely this isn't a surprise; you could fill in the blanks with addresses in Raleigh, Cary, or anywhere else.

Get a crime map from the police department and naturally it will be concentrated in certain areas, and others will have almost nothing marked.

This is excellent advice. Here is an online Durham Crime Mapper. You can choose which crimes to look at and it will give you an idea of what most of us will agree on.

Durham Crime Mapper

[Jonny94]

GLP, I'm a little surprised by your impressions of Durham. Yeah, we residents can be a bit defensive about it. Your post saying you felt like you were going to be carjacked is, well, IMO it just sends the wrong impression. Having lived here less than a year, I haven't had that feeling at all (unless you count the other night in the parking lot across from Alivia's when a stranger opened the back door of our car as we were about to back out of the parking spot - turns out he was running a bit behind the people he was with, and had the wrong car!)

The residential neighborhoods in Durham's core are great, IMO, but can be spotty. There are stunningly beautiful blocks, and then a run-down block right next to it. It can even vary like that within a block. But you sort of get used to that. It's progressing in the right direction. The neighborhoods here are pretty tight-knit and the listservs really help people communicate with each other.

And where are these overpriced fake plastic lofts (apologies to Radiohead) anyway? I'm guessing you're perhaps referring to the Erwin Sq. area? Areas to the north of Duke's West campus? Because the downtown lofts/condos just don't have that feel at all to me. West Village and other complexes near downtown are in rehabbed warehouses; they strike me as authentic, cool, hip urban living spaces. Yeah, the condos in Kress are expensive, but it's a beautiful building in a central downtown location.

As for Brightleaf - no, it's not a large area! Although the dual warehouse Brightleaf Square itself is fairly compact, I believe Peabody Place across Gregson is also considered part of Brightleaf. Peabody Place includes Morgan Imports, Parker & Otis, and Pop's. I also include Alivia's, Anotherthyme, the Federal, Fishmongers, Torero's and the vacant (I think) Studebaker building all part of the "Brightleaf" commercial district. Still, that's not huge, but there are tons of restaurants and plenty of shopping just in that area.

And I agree with the poster(s) who said the D Bulls are a great take. The American Tobacco complex is nice and has lots of activity on game days.

I'm not going to try to convince you Durham's the right place for you. The whole Triangle has a lot to offer. As I posted months ago, I'm extremely familiar with the area you live in now. I grew up in central Massachusetts, went to high school in Shrewsbury, college in Worcester and lived in Woo from 2000 to 2007. I liked it there and really like it here. I think you'll be happy here in the Triangle. Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you have questions.

[West_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by NC from MA

West Raleigh Guy...when did you leave MA? We're moving from Rutland in June. Don't you miss the snow and ice from November through April???? Do you still have family in "Lesta"?

I left MA a few years ago and haven't looked back. Whenever I visit up there, I can't wait to get back here. It is just falling apart up there. I visit my parents up there, but that is the only reason I go back.

[scorp200]

I've been in Durham for a year - no carjacking, no fear of carjacking ever (I went to college in Newark, NJ...so...the mere notion of carjacking in Durham makes me laugh, then sigh about the reputation?).

My complaint about where I live: no character, boring. But I don't have to drive far to get it (ie, 5 minutes).

[West_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by scorp200

My complaint about where I live: no character, boring. But I don't have to drive far to get it (ie, 5 minutes).

The short drive is good. Less time for hijacking.

[GucciLittlePiggie]

Originally Posted by Jonny94

GLP, I'm a little surprised by your impressions of Durham. Yeah, we residents can be a bit defensive about it. Your post saying you felt like you were going to be carjacked is, well, IMO it just sends the wrong impression. Having lived here less than a year, I haven't had that feeling at all (unless you count the other night in the parking lot across from Alivia's when a stranger opened the back door of our car as we were about to back out of the parking spot - turns out he was running a bit behind the people he was with, and had the wrong car!)

The residential neighborhoods in Durham's core are great, IMO, but can be spotty. There are stunningly beautiful blocks, and then a run-down block right next to it. It can even vary like that within a block. But you sort of get used to that. It's progressing in the right direction. The neighborhoods here are pretty tight-knit and the listservs really help people communicate with each other.

And where are these overpriced fake plastic lofts (apologies to Radiohead) anyway? I'm guessing you're perhaps referring to the Erwin Sq. area? Areas to the north of Duke's West campus? Because the downtown lofts/condos just don't have that feel at all to me. West Village and other complexes near downtown are in rehabbed warehouses; they strike me as authentic, cool, hip urban living spaces. Yeah, the condos in Kress are expensive, but it's a beautiful building in a central downtown location.

As for Brightleaf - no, it's not a large area! Although the dual warehouse Brightleaf Square itself is fairly compact, I believe Peabody Place across Gregson is also considered part of Brightleaf. Peabody Place includes Morgan Imports, Parker & Otis, and Pop's. I also include Alivia's, Anotherthyme, the Federal, Fishmongers, Torero's and the vacant (I think) Studebaker building all part of the "Brightleaf" commercial district. Still, that's not huge, but there are tons of restaurants and plenty of shopping just in that area.

And I agree with the poster(s) who said the D Bulls are a great take. The American Tobacco complex is nice and has lots of activity on game days.

I'm not going to try to convince you Durham's the right place for you. The whole Triangle has a lot to offer. As I posted months ago, I'm extremely familiar with the area you live in now. I grew up in central Massachusetts, went to high school in Shrewsbury, college in Worcester and lived in Woo from 2000 to 2007. I liked it there and really like it here. I think you'll be happy here in the Triangle. Good luck, and feel free to PM me if you have questions.

Seriously, the Radiohead reference, the fact you lived in Worcester the same years I did, and went to college there too, and went to hs in Shrewsbury... and then found your way down to NC... it's like we're twins. I feel like I've got to know you somehow....

I do understand what you're saying. My comment about being carjacked has gotten a lot of attention, and at the risk of sounding like a politician, perhaps that was a poor choice of words. I just spent a short time in Durham, and it had many nice parts, but the parts where I could be living (that I saw) didn't seem to be what I was looking for. Of course when I live in Raleigh, I'll probably be visiting Durham every couple weeks, and will get to know it better.

[Bull City Rising]

Originally Posted by GucciLittlePiggie

Seriously, the Radiohead reference, the fact you lived in Worcester the same years I did, and went to college there too, and went to hs in Shrewsbury... and then found your way down to NC... it's like we're twins. I feel like I've got to know you somehow....

I do understand what you're saying. My comment about being carjacked has gotten a lot of attention, and at the risk of sounding like a politician, perhaps that was a poor choice of words. I just spent a short time in Durham, and it had many nice parts, but the parts where I could be living (that I saw) didn't seem to be what I was looking for. Of course when I live in Raleigh, I'll probably be visiting Durham every couple weeks, and will get to know it better.

FWIW, you're not alone. The Census data I've seen suggests that northeastern urbanites -- residents in Middlesex/Suffolk Co. MA, Manhattan/Brooklyn NY, Cook IL, etc. -- pick Durham disproportionately over Raleigh. Suburban county residents (and I'd include Worcester in that) tend to be more comfortable in Wake County.

That's a broad and overly-sweeping generalization, but I think there's some value to it. My wife and I moved to the Triangle from Cambridge, Mass. and after looking at Apex, Cary and the like, we felt just as uncomfortable there as you must have felt in Durham. We want to be in a walkable, urban place -- that was Durham for us, not any of the Wake County suburbs.

We Durhamites do get snippy about assumptions about being carjacked. Then again, I used to walk in Cambridge and Boston at all times of day and night, and never worried about that, but had friends who lived in Worcester and southern NH who were scared to come into Boston anytime, day or night.

(I can say from first-hand experience, though, that Durham is as safe or safer than any other city I've been in -- though you have to have a city-wise approach just as you would in a place like Boston or Phila.)

[findingmesomeday]

I agree w/ BCR, even though I've only been in Durham twice. I didn't feel unsafe at all. And you have to use common sense anywhere. I never went into the combat zone in Boston, the Tenderloin in San Francisco (though I lived in the Castro district for 2 years and never felt safer. Thanks guys! LOL), and stay well clear of North Philly when I'm home to visit. I've been in and around NYC on my own and love it. I don't think I ever found an area of Seattle or Portland where I felt unsafe, though I know that they exist. When I was single and had a job that required a LOT of travel, I found myself in unfamiliar cities and had no problem . You sense which areas are ok or you ask questions. No need to be afraid of Durham but no need to venture into the worst neighborhoods at night on your own, either!

P.S. As an aside, I love to see urban revitialization. We took my son on some college campus tours over the April break and two of the schools we visited, Drexel and Penn, are right next door to each other in West Phiilly. When I was growing up, West Philly was block after block of abandoned and/or burned out tenements (remember MOVE?). But the two universities have purchased a huge parcel of land there and have converted all that space to open campus greenery, faculty housing, student housing or other university buildings. And of course the businesses that attract the university set followed right along. Drexel ,particularly, surprised me with how much "campus" it had and how in felt so much safer than in years' past. So anything's possible and I think Durham is giong to be AWESOME (and I already like it a lot) as it continues its revitilization.

[geoff2v]

Originally Posted by Bull City Rising

FWIW, you're not alone. The Census data I've seen suggests that northeastern urbanites -- residents in Middlesex/Suffolk Co. MA, Manhattan/Brooklyn NY, Cook IL, etc. -- pick Durham disproportionately over Raleigh. Suburban county residents (and I'd include Worcester in that) tend to be more comfortable in Wake County.

That's a broad and overly-sweeping generalization, but I think there's some value to it. My wife and I moved to the Triangle from Cambridge, Mass. and after looking at Apex, Cary and the like, we felt just as uncomfortable there as you must have felt in Durham. We want to be in a walkable, urban place -- that was Durham for us, not any of the Wake County suburbs.

We Durhamites do get snippy about assumptions about being carjacked. Then again, I used to walk in Cambridge and Boston at all times of day and night, and never worried about that, but had friends who lived in Worcester and southern NH who were scared to come into Boston anytime, day or night.

(I can say from first-hand experience, though, that Durham is as safe or safer than any other city I've been in -- though you have to have a city-wise approach just as you would in a place like Boston or Phila.)

For some people in the Triangle and who move to the Triangle, just as is the case among many folks who live in newer, outer suburbs, the "big city" is a big scary place, full of dangerous things like carjacking and muggings and gang initiations and people who speak strange languages and look different. The house with the nice lawn and security system and no public transit trains rumbling nearby are the norm and provide a sense of security, and like anything else, when you're used to something other things can seem frightening.

I remember going to NYC on a business trip a few years back with colleagues from St. Louis, where I lived at the time, and heading over to Times Square (this is when it was well into its Disneyfied phase, when Giuliani was mayor; 2000 I think.). I thought nothing of walking back about 12 blocks to our hotel -- I had lived in New York for three years -- but the surroundings freaked everyone else out so we took cabs. It was a good lesson in how some people react to the idea and reality of a place like NYC.

Personally, I'm a little frightened walking in a residential subdivision at 11 pm at night when there's nobody else outside; I was always much more comfortable walking around, say, Greenwich Village, where there wasn't any deserted streets.