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Old 05-28-2008, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,820 posts, read 55,796,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan View Post
My daughter graduated NCSU Magna c-u-m Laude in 1995 with highest departmental honors in Sociology.

The only job she could find at first paid $5 per hour at Food Lion. Moved up to Target at $8. Had to take a cut to $7.50 to enter NC gov't as a DMV file clerk.

Now doing OK in state gov't but no gravy train.

This is what I mean about traditional Raleigh salaries.
Isn't that a widely-acknowledged traditional USA sociology-major career track, not limited to Raleigh?
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:42 PM
 
103 posts, read 69,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan View Post
My daughter graduated NCSU Magna c-u-m Laude in 1995 with highest departmental honors in Sociology.

The only job she could find at first paid $5 per hour at Food Lion. Moved up to Target at $8. Had to take a cut to $7.50 to enter NC gov't as a DMV file clerk.

Now doing OK in state gov't but no gravy train.

This is what I mean about traditional Raleigh salaries.

Problem with your argument is that is not "traditional Raleigh salaries". I know you are concerned about this happening or that happening, but the fact of the matter is that there was a slowdown several years ago and the world did not end in Raleigh. There has been lots of growth since then. One cannot go through life not enjoying or not trying to move forward, because something "might" happen. There will be ups and downs, but one must look at the overall long run growth and improvements.

The fact of the matter is that most people in this area do very well with their salaries. The real estate market is feeling the effect of the national slowdown, but is at least much better than most. Houses of all kinds are being bought, not just expensive homes. You tend to generalize way too much and put everyone into one of 2 baskets.....the rich, overpaid yuppie, buying only big house basket or the held down, working class can't get ahead basket. Neither extreme is the normal case.
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Old 05-28-2008, 09:55 PM
rfb
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
1,848 posts, read 5,041,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duhrambull View Post
With the high paid jobs leaving RTP (ask the GSK, IBM folks), this section will see more dramastic drop in the near future
Since I work for IBM, I'll comment on the implication that IBM is somehow closing down the RTP lab. RTP has been and remains IBM's largest lab worldwide. Some folks loose their job every year, either due to layoffs or performance. With IBM, this typically happens twice a year. At the same time, though, IBM continues to hire new and experienced employees. The net result is employment with those "high-paying" jobs remains relatively stable.

Certainly, if a large number of high-paying jobs are lost in RTP this will impact much of the Triangle. Then again, the loss of a large number of high-paying jobs would negatively impact just about any part of the country.
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:33 PM
 
2,558 posts, read 6,189,596 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan View Post
My daughter graduated NCSU Magna c-u-m Laude in 1995 with highest departmental honors in Sociology.

The only job she could find at first paid $5 per hour at Food Lion. Moved up to Target at $8. Had to take a cut to $7.50 to enter NC gov't as a DMV file clerk.

Now doing OK in state gov't but no gravy train.

This is what I mean about traditional Raleigh salaries.
Sociology is perhaps not the best field if someone wants to make a good living. $5/hr to $8/hr jobs are not "traditional Raleigh salaries". I was making more than that as a co-op student at IBM as a Sophomore at NC State in the 1980s. Heck, I was making at least that much in High School mowing yards and busing tables.

Even before you arrived in the late 80s, there were plenty of good salaries and solid growth in the area. Once the RTP was opened in 1959, this really started in earnest, and in the 1970s and 1980s this was led by the likes of IBM, Northern Telecom, Alcatel/ITT, Burroughs Wellcome, SAS, Glaxo, etc. You can see the evidence of that era and the nice salaries in all the nice North Raleigh neighborhoods between I-440 and I-540 along Six Forks and Falls, etc. Even before that, the area did well, as evidence in all the wealthy older Raleigh neighborhoods inside-the-beltline like Hayes-Barton, Cameron Park, etc. that thrived in the first half of the 20th Century.
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:44 AM
 
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I shared a rental house in Boston my jr/sr year of school One of my roommates was a Socio major @ Northeastern. She went right on to get her masters (MSW) at Penn and THEN she had a decent paying job (for that field). But she still had to put in her time.

I'm sure it's possible to get a good job without the master's degree though. The point I'm trying to make is that there are no "gimmes" in life. You work hard for your education and then get out and have to work hard at your career. I spent my 20's working crazy hours, traveling the globe, being relocated about 1x/year, etc. to achieve what I wanted to achieve. My path is not for everyone but it was important to me so I put in the time and effort required.

Yes, I'm sure given the same exact job in Raleigh or Boston, I'd make more money in Boston but the cost of living difference eats that up in no time. In fact, my husband recently found a great calculator that takes into account not only COL and salaries, but taxes and a whole host of other things, so that you can compare city-by-city, what winds up IN YOUR POCKET. Surprisingly, NC is not that much of a bargain, but it's better than Boston. However also surprisingly, the Pacific Northwest is better than NC.

However, then you have to take into account in what field you work and whether or not jobs are available in that field and how they pay. In my field, there are few to no jobs in the PNW and the ones that are available, pay terribly. So despite that calculator, I'd do better in Raleigh.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:11 AM
 
9,680 posts, read 23,601,304 times
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I still say that NC salaries for many jobs are lower because of the lack of unions and immigrant labor. Compare a sanitation worker in Raleigh with one in NYC.

I hope many of you high paid folks don't experience the economic disaster I went through in Louisiana.

After losing an IT job with a major public utility that got in trouble, there was a 6 month waiting list at Mickey Dee's. That's how bad it got.

It very well may happen here if the bubble in tech and pharma explodes when sales fall and jobs are offshored.

Enjoy your luxuries while you can. The bank may be reposessing them in a few years.

Hope not, but make sure to live within your means and get 6 months income in a readily available FDIC insured account.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:11 AM
 
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Those same unions push up prices and make everything more expensive. So the worker who is lucky enough to have a job makes more, but everything cost so much more. Businesses that have a choice will avoid union areas. The lack of unions in this area has helped this area attract business.

The Louisiana problems in the 1980s stem from having one industry, Oil, that drove the economy. When you have that much dependency on one product and a foreign cartel that can manipulate prices on a whim, that is a recipe for disaster. This area is very different.

It is important to understand how diverse this area is. "Tech" is a very large umbrella. So is "pharma" really. That diversity, along with lots of other fields, really stabilize the local job market. We are past the point where one company or one niche market struggling will send huge ripples through the local economy. And it gets better all the time.

I'm not sure what bubble you think exists in tech and pharma.

But I agree with living in your means and having a safety net. Individual employers will always be having cuts, and if it happens to you during a downturn it is painful and it can take awhile to find a comparable job.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Apex, NC
2,947 posts, read 7,185,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dire Wolf View Post
Those same unions push up prices and make everything more expensive. So the worker who is lucky enough to have a job makes more, but everything cost so much more. Businesses that have a choice will avoid union areas. The lack of unions in this area has helped this area attract business.

The Louisiana problems in the 1980s stem from having one industry, Oil, that drove the economy. When you have that much dependency on one product and a foreign cartel that can manipulate prices on a whim, that is a recipe for disaster. This area is very different.

It is important to understand how diverse this area is. "Tech" is a very large umbrella. So is "pharma" really. That diversity, along with lots of other fields, really stabilize the local job market. We are past the point where one company or one niche market struggling will send huge ripples through the local economy. And it gets better all the time.

I'm not sure what bubble you think exists in tech and pharma.

But I agree with living in your means and having a safety net. Individual employers will always be having cuts, and if it happens to you during a downturn it is painful and it can take awhile to find a comparable job.

Agree with everything you said, especially about the union jobs. Unions are not good for the whole and they are a big reason that jobs have moved out of states like Michigan, Ohio, etc. Sure the trash man makes more in NYC, but your sky high taxes pay for that. I'm not a big fan of unions at all.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:00 AM
 
3,031 posts, read 8,182,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dire Wolf View Post
Those same unions push up prices and make everything more expensive. So the worker who is lucky enough to have a job makes more, but everything cost so much more. Businesses that have a choice will avoid union areas. The lack of unions in this area has helped this area attract business.

The Louisiana problems in the 1980s stem from having one industry, Oil, that drove the economy. When you have that much dependency on one product and a foreign cartel that can manipulate prices on a whim, that is a recipe for disaster. This area is very different.

It is important to understand how diverse this area is. "Tech" is a very large umbrella. So is "pharma" really. That diversity, along with lots of other fields, really stabilize the local job market. We are past the point where one company or one niche market struggling will send huge ripples through the local economy. And it gets better all the time.

I'm not sure what bubble you think exists in tech and pharma.

But I agree with living in your means and having a safety net. Individual employers will always be having cuts, and if it happens to you during a downturn it is painful and it can take awhile to find a comparable job.
Exactly. I work for a company that hires a lot of electrical contractors. We prefer to go non-union. Sometimes we run into a potential client who insists we use union labor but still make a certain payback number. Not possible. Besides, if you use non-union, you can offer an incentive for a job completed early, well done, etc. Not so with unions. You need one guy to do job A, another guy to do job B and so on. The entire project is held up if the job B guy is late to work because the jobs A-E guys can't lift a finger to do job B guy's job, even though they're qualfied.

And that's another problem with union labor. Half the time, they aren't even qualified.

I agree that one of the major attractions of the Triangle is the non-union aspect.

And as far as the smarts of NOT being dependent upon one industry--look at Seattle. It went bust in the 80's when it when Boeing was the major (union) employer. Now it's diversified and very, very healthy.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:15 PM
 
9,680 posts, read 23,601,304 times
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Right to Work = Right to Work for Less.

Some unions are bad, but just watch management when no unions exist. Research the exploitation of Raleigh sanitation workers that came to a head last year. These folks who work in cold and the 100+ temperatures last August were cheated out of their overtime. Largely minority, these employees were treated terribly until a public outcry occurred. Unions no use?

See what happened to construction wages and what lousy skills now build your homes.

I was in Federal management but am staunchly pro-union.

Last edited by saturnfan; 05-29-2008 at 01:24 PM..
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