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Old 07-10-2008, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Lowest Taxed/Highest Q.O.L. CARY, NC
551 posts, read 575,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan View Post
Let these rats get their hands in your pocket and they'll dig deeper every year.

Rats don't have hands.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:13 PM
 
3,395 posts, read 7,770,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewUser View Post
This is actually a very interesting document if you take the time to browse through it. Other noteworthy pages are 118 and 119. They show the recommended toll at each tollbooth from 2011 through 2035 (yes. . . . .for all you naive people who think that the tolls will end when they pay off the road. . . .think again!). The initial tolls run from 25 cents at exit ramps up to 75 cents at the major toll booths.
I think you are reading too much into that. We are talking a BILLION dollars worth of roads. It is going to take a long time to pay that off (especially since it is financed, so will interests, operating costs of the toll system, etc).
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Charlton, MA
1,395 posts, read 5,084,081 times
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Ok. I'm confused. Does this include the expansion of 540 to complete the loop?
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:26 PM
 
3,395 posts, read 7,770,721 times
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Yes (sorta), the "Triangle Expressway" includes the Triangle Parkway and Western Wake Freeway.

North Carolina Turnpike Authority: Triangle Expressway

This does not complete the loop, but keeps it moving around to the South.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Charlton, MA
1,395 posts, read 5,084,081 times
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Wow. How exciting. I wonder how this will affect property values in H.S. now that there is going to be a highway connecting it to RTP.
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Wake Forest
2,835 posts, read 7,341,725 times
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What I am confused about is how has NC paid for all the roads they built in the past through the economic downturns and the good times? Never needed a toll road before. What changed? Prosperity, the area is growing meaning more TAX revenue coming in each year...is that it? Bad winters that tear up the roadways so they need to be resurfaced? I think not! So why does the state not have enough money to build new roads?? Have we stopped paying our vehicle registration and personal property taxes and our state tax on gas and diesel products? Not last time I paid my tax bill and filled up. What gives?

Have we learned the northern way to generate revenue? The PA Turnpike Northeast extension was built in the 1950's and the tolls were to come off when it was paid for. Its 2008 and the tolls are still on and have done one thing over the years, they gone up!
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Old 07-10-2008, 10:40 PM
 
3,395 posts, read 7,770,721 times
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There are a variety of reasons and it is largely a national problem. Construction costs have skyrocketed, growing far faster than inflation. The value of federal gas tax dollars has declined. Closer to home, our needs have grown due to growth, aging infrastructure, etc. far faster than the funds become available.

As people drive less, get more fuel efficient vehicles, etc, the funding problems become even greater.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:27 AM
 
5,743 posts, read 17,599,256 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dire Wolf View Post
I think you are reading too much into that. We are talking a BILLION dollars worth of roads. It is going to take a long time to pay that off (especially since it is financed, so will interests, operating costs of the toll system, etc).
I don't understand your comment Dire Wolf. I agree that the roads will take a LONG TIME to pay off. In fact, I don't think that they will ever be paid off and the tolls will continue forever. I was just pointing out that this document shows forecasts out to at least 2035. Other pages show revenue generation potential out to 2050. I'll be 6' under by then
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Durham, NC
2,024 posts, read 5,914,185 times
Reputation: 3478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dire Wolf View Post
There are a variety of reasons and it is largely a national problem. Construction costs have skyrocketed, growing far faster than inflation. The value of federal gas tax dollars has declined. Closer to home, our needs have grown due to growth, aging infrastructure, etc. far faster than the funds become available.

As people drive less, get more fuel efficient vehicles, etc, the funding problems become even greater.
And to compound this: N.C. was, 80 years ago, a rural state. Blacktop would last longer with less vehicular traffic; straightforward roads connected smaller towns.

The Federal government chipped in in a big way to build interstate highways but that trough is empty.

Charlotte, Raleigh and Durham were sleepy small cities in the 30s. Now they have multilane highways and bypasses, and need more. Urban roadbuilding is significantly more expensive. But that's where the growth is.

Folks, there ain't a magic money-pit out there to pay for the roads. If we rely on current funding methods, it's decades before roads like 540 get built.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Wake Forest
2,835 posts, read 7,341,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bull City Rising View Post
And to compound this: N.C. was, 80 years ago, a rural state. Blacktop would last longer with less vehicular traffic; straightforward roads connected smaller towns.

The Federal government chipped in in a big way to build interstate highways but that trough is empty.

Charlotte, Raleigh and Durham were sleepy small cities in the 30s. Now they have multilane highways and bypasses, and need more. Urban roadbuilding is significantly more expensive. But that's where the growth is.

Folks, there ain't a magic money-pit out there to pay for the roads. If we rely on current funding methods, it's decades before roads like 540 get built.
I agree there is no magic money pit but is that not what our government is asking us to believe with a toll road? If you 'charge' them they will 'build' it! How is it that the northern part of 540 was built without a toll? Prices rose during its building phase too, but money was found. Time to think long and hard on why a toll is needed for completing 540.

IMO a bad precedence for ALL new road construction will be set if we allow 540 or any road in NC state to be a toll road.
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