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I have had similar issues with my German Shepherd, thankfully not with thunderstorms. I have also been to the certified pet psychologist near bond park in Cary. They were attentive and patient but only recommended putting the dog on "valium". I am not really comfortable with prescription drugs as behavioral therapy, becasue dont want my dog to be addicted to valium for life.
I tokk hime and continue to take him for basic training to Tarheel Canine in Sanford where he has overcome a lot of his separartion anxiety. I can now walk him outside and walk past people without him trying to lunge for them etc. They will socialize him slowly and I would recommend that you try them.
Although we personally haven't used Tarheel Canine, I can also echo that this facility is considered one the best in the nation and is used by law enforcement and military trainers throughout the country... yes, in little ole Sanford
They have several behavioral programs that aren't police/military related that may help. Perhaps you could give them a call and see what their thoughts are on your challenges with Jax and what they may be able to offer.
I too am glad to hear you are trying to stick with working out the problems with this dog, as many folks.... I admit even I, may have given up long ago through sheer frustration based on your description. Kudos to your patience Jax is lucky.
I'm so sorry to hear that my beloved black lab Tess, who died several years ago, has been reincarnated and has assumed the body and spirit of your dog Jax. It appears that Tess/Jax is still morbidly afraid of thunderstorms, still doing thousands of dollars worth of damage to the home and still breaking out of every dog crate imaginable. Tess lost her teeth biting through plastic and metal crates so it follows that Jax has none either. No type of medication affected Tess. We came home from shopping one day, in the midst of a thunderstorm, to find Tess impaled on a piece of her metal crate, that she had destroyed in trying to break out. After $1000+ of emergency surgery, we brought her home from the hospital.
When we flew her up to New England from VA, the guys working the cargo hold laughed as we approached. It turned out that Tess, who weighed 80lbs, got out of the side window of the SkyKennel and was running around the cargo hold. When the guys opened the door, there was our "tongue with a dog attached" waiting to happily greet them.
Tess lived a long and full life and only came down with a terminal condition (tumor around her heart) a week before we had to put her down. We loved that dog. I don't have any advice for you as we never found a solution that worked for Tess, but I would happily do it all over again if we could have her back. Please tell Jax that we said hello and that we miss Tess.
ETA: The vet did mention that Prozac sometimes works in these situations. At the time, Prozac was about $20/pill. Now that there's a generic, it might be feasible?
Last edited by findingmesomeday; 09-04-2008 at 02:01 PM..
I am so sorry that you are having these troubles. I have identical problems with our dog. I understand how heartbreaking it can be to see your dog go through such anxiety. Unfortunately, some dogs are just going to be this way, and a class will not change what is instinct. There is someone at the NC Vet School (can't remember the person's name) who specializes in this sort of thing. A consulting session was more than I could afford, but it might be worth looking into.
You mentioned "doggie valium." What were you using? Xanax (sp?) can work for single use events (thunderstorms) but if you want something long term, you might want to try Clomicalm. It worked for our pup. It takes a few months to work, but she no longer gets "crate injury." In fact, we don't crate her at all. Good luck!!!!!!
Thanks again for all the input and thoughts. I particularly appreciate those who shared their stories of similar issues.
We did end up trying Bark Busters. Sanford simply isn't going to work for me. Some of the other options were attractive, too. I had several folks contact me directly with success stories from Bark Busters, so we decided to give it a go.
We met with a lady named Jenny who asked a lot of questions about Jax and his behaviors. She explained the issue was that we needed to be trained. She attributes most of Jax's behavior to dominance. It was eye-opening that some of the cute, cuddly behavior we love about Jax can really be a form of passive dominance.
She said that since he believes he is the leader of the pack, he feels a huge responsibility for our safety. When we leave, he cannot control our safety, so he freaks out and is willing to injury himself to try to find a way to save us.
So, we are trying to change how we interact with him so he can understand he is not responsible for us. She thinks if we can do that, it will dramatically change his behavior. We at least have some hope.
We met with Jenny for about 5 hours (about 2 of it with her teaching us how to react to specific behaviors). We will meet again for several hours in 3 weeks to see how it is going and add new items into the system.
I should note she was strongly anti-medication, so we are weaning Jax off the meds (sorry, I don't recall the name, but clomicalm sounds about right). The meds didn't seem to help at all and, interestingly, just seem to give him the munchies.
Wow, Mike--very interesting. Please let us know how things are progressing. I would have never in a million years dreamed that Tess would be trying to protect us! We thought it was separation anxiety--though I guess you could say that what Jax is going through in trying to protect you and becoming agitated when you are not around--is a form of separation anxiety.
Wow, Mike--very interesting. Please let us know how things are progressing. I would have never in a million years dreamed that Tess would be trying to protect us! We thought it was separation anxiety--though I guess you could say that what Jax is going through in trying to protect you and becoming agitated when you are not around--is a form of separation anxiety.
Likewise. That just didn't occur to me. Jenny asked questions about other behaviors (barking at people walking down the street or cars as we travel) to make sure she was on the right track. Once she explained the linkage with the behaviors, it seemed pretty solid.
I guess Jax just thinks we're so stupid we can't take care of ourselves. Sadly, he's often right! LOL.
I think training (done properly) of a dog can only help the dog and the owner. But I would not expect Bark Busters to improve your dog's thunderstorm phobia or any separation anxiety he might have. I spoke extensively with the Bark Busters trainer in the area where we moved from. His experience? He owned a dog and took a short course offered by Bark Busters. He had never competed in obedience with his dog or taken any college level classes in animal behavior. Asking the man about backward chaining or shaping by successive approximations and you got a blank stare. If you were to try to discuss with him the view that fear of thunder is an unconditioned response and has a genetic link, he'd start making his way for the door.
You have a dog that is so afraid it is injuring itself. It is only a matter of time before he jumps out a window or does something else to seriously hurt himself. Besides, can you imagine how hard it must be to live with that much anxiety? I cannot urge you enough to make a single visit to a behaviorist. Their input, in conjunction with increased exercise and the Bark Busters training, will almost certainly be necessary for your dog.
That is very sad that you are having so much troubles with your dog. I, too, have a dog with "issues". His are more geared towards other dogs. I am a big fan of the Dog Whisperer and Ceasar Milan. It seems that a common thread in "curing" these dogs is plenty of exercise. Does your dog get a lot of exercise? If you don't have time for long walks, perhaps some time on the treadmill might help him better deal with his anxieities. Just a thought. I wish you luck and would like to commend you for not giving up on him which unfortunately is what so many pet owners do.
I think training (done properly) of a dog can only help the dog and the owner. But I would not expect Bark Busters to improve your dog's thunderstorm phobia or any separation anxiety he might have. I spoke extensively with the Bark Busters trainer in the area where we moved from. His experience? He owned a dog and took a short course offered by Bark Busters. He had never competed in obedience with his dog or taken any college level classes in animal behavior. Asking the man about backward chaining or shaping by successive approximations and you got a blank stare. If you were to try to discuss with him the view that fear of thunder is an unconditioned response and has a genetic link, he'd start making his way for the door.
You have a dog that is so afraid it is injuring itself. It is only a matter of time before he jumps out a window or does something else to seriously hurt himself. Besides, can you imagine how hard it must be to live with that much anxiety? I cannot urge you enough to make a single visit to a behaviorist. Their input, in conjunction with increased exercise and the Bark Busters training, will almost certainly be necessary for your dog.
I appreciate the thoughts. For the record, we have met with an animal behaviorist through our vet. They were not particularly helpful; that's in large measure why we started looking at options like this.
I appreciate you sharing a bad experience w/Bark Busters. Fortunately, the lady here is far more experienced; but, of course, every customer experience reflects back on the controls the company has in place.
OTOH, the SPCA awarded Bark Busters it's "Best of the Best" award for excellence in pet behavior training at the end of 2007. I'd hope your experience was the aberration rather than the norm. Maybe there simply were not many experienced animal behaviorists in the area.
So far, we have been more pleased with this approach than that offered by the vet's behaviorist. But this approach requires a lot more work and effort on our part. We'll see how it plays out, but we're trying to keep our eyes open. Notes like yours are helpful in that regard.
I am not an expert but I would consider getting a CD of a thunderstorm
and playing it very low while playing with him and slowly every few days increasing the volume to desensitize him to the sound.
It is one of those "can't hurt/might help" things to try.
Excellent idea.
In fact frankly my impression is you are likely more qualified and capable to help in these kind of situations than many alleged "experts." I'll take a little functioning gray matter and common sense over some yahoo who passed some classes and has a fancy piece of paper hanging on their wall every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Worst are those who think the answer to most behavioral problems is drugs - that should a LAST resort (if that), not the first!
Edit: having said that, congrats on finding someone who does sound very capable and best of luck
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Jax is lucky.
