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I'm seeing that you have issues with Realtors no matter how honest or how helpful they try to be so we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
However, just to prove Debbie's point...
Sunday, I showed a house in McCrimmon at the Park. It is a Pulte neighborhood. Since I have sold Pulte's houses, I am on their mailing list. They sent out a flyer, reducing some of the house $50K.
When I look on MLS, the price does not show the incentive.
How would you feel if you were to go into this n'hood without a buyer's agent, and because you are such an experienced negotiator, you get yourself what YOU consider a deal. Let's say that you get the buyer's agent 2.5% and perhaps $10K in options. Comes out to be about $17,000 and you'd have done well for yourself. Saving $17,000 is great!
However, I then sold the house next door to you, got my 2.5% commission AND saved MY BUYER $50,000. How would you feel then?
Are you SURE you are better at this than an experienced Buyer's Agent? Are you willing to take that risk???
How is it that you say the "attorney does more to protect you"?
The attorney does search the title and get the paperwork done so that all the legal docs are done correctly BUT...
Does the attorney go with you for your walk throughs? Does the attorney help you work out the issues with your inspections? Does the attorney pull the comps to tell you what the other homes have been selling for so that you can make an educated decision? I could go on and on but I won't.
I suggest to those of you that do not WANT a Realtor, do not use a Realtor. However, please don't advise others when you simply do not have the experience to advise them.
Vicki
Ok, here we go again, I'm not going to win any friends here, I know, but contrary to popular belief by some, real estate is not rocket science. Why do you think there are sooooo many agents? Because there is a lot of money there and relative income ratio, to other professions and education requirements, the bar is set very low. Sorry but it is true. You can be up making six-figures in under 2-years if you are motivated and aggressive. Not many professions allow for this.
As for the realtor protecting you "more" then the attorney, pure nonsense. Don't believe me? Try actually reading those documents the agents have you sign both to represent you and at closing. It is chalk full of "warnings" about what your agent is NOT. And how they cannot advise you on this or that, or protect you during any part of the transaction. It basically lets you know what their job really entails, but most people never actually read it.
Here is what I recommend and listen to me very carefully on this, please! As a buyer your realtor will very quickly and conveniently hand you a list of highly recommended inspectors to use before closing. Unless you are very naive and foolish, do not use any of them. Find yourself an independent inspector, perhaps a city inspector who works doing home inspections on the side after hours. These guys usually have no "friends" if you know what I mean.
Now, I have no idea how much, or if there is a "good ole boy system" in play in this area, but in many, many markets there are. I have witnessed it first hand and been the victim of it more then once via "agents." The most amazing thing is after they *********, they still get paid. Do not use your agent's, or the selling agent's recommended inspectors, appraisers, etc. Find your own and find someone who is not in bed with the whole group. This includes a closing attorney. They will all scream about ethics and yada, yada, yada, but trust me, the old pat my back and I'll pat yours goes on ALL THE TIME! Bottom line, in my experience, the main objective of BOTH agents is to make the deal close and often times it becomes, make the deal close at all costs! Sad but true. The only person that is 100% vested and looking out for your interest, is yourself. Remember this at all times when making any real estate deal. At all times! You are in charge and you make the decisions. They want their commision and not much will get in the way of that.
As for agents being involved in inspection? Sure they can negotiate on paper, but for giving you advice on the nuts and bolts of what that inspection report REALLY means? Ha! Most agents know little to nothing about the mechanics and fundamentals of construction. Bring in an expert to interpret that report!
Last edited by CarolinaCowboy; 09-30-2008 at 10:19 AM..
If you don't use an agent and then you find out what your neighbors got using an agent......:-) going back to the onsite agent to complain will get you no where.
I don't interpret this as anything other than a statement of FACT. Sorry, but
If you don't use an agent and then you find out what your neighbors got using an agent......:-) going back to the onsite agent to complain will get you no where.
I don't interpret this as anything other than a statement of FACT.
The onsite agent does not work for the buyer. Period. If a buyer is comfortable going it alone,so be it-I have done so myself. At the same time, there seems to be a pervasive resentment toward the concept of a Buyer's agent, and an impression that what a Buyer's agent does is somehow not worthy of a commission. If you feel that way, then feel free to represent yourself, but understand the following-
1)You do NOT have access to all of the same information that an agent does
and
2)Anyone you hire during the purchase process will only be able to act in their specific capacity (Attorney, Inspector, etc.) and will not be allowed to step in as your surrogate agent.
Ok, here we go again, I'm not going to win any friends here, I know, but contrary to popular belief by some, real estate is not rocket science. Why do you think there are sooooo many agents? Because there is a lot of money there and relative income ratio, to other professions and education requirements, the bar is set very low. Sorry but it is true. You can be up making six-figures in under 2-years if you are motivated and aggressive. Not many professions allow for this.
As for the realtor protecting you "more" then the attorney, pure nonsense. Don't believe me? Try actually reading those documents the agents have you sign both to represent you and at closing. It is chalk full of "warnings" about what your agent is NOT. And how they cannot advise you on this or that, or protect you during any part of the transaction. It basically lets you know what their job really entails, but most people never actually read it.
Here is what I recommend and listen to me very carefully on this, please! As a buyer your realtor will very quickly and conveniently hand you a list of highly recommended inspectors to use before closing. Unless you are very naive and foolish, do not use any of them. Find yourself an independent inspector, perhaps a city inspector who works doing home inspections on the side after hours. These guys usually have no "friends" if you know what I mean.
Now, I have no idea how much, or if there is a "good ole boy system" in play in this area, but in many, many markets there are. I have witnessed it first hand and been the victim of it more then once via "agents." The most amazing thing is after they *********, they still get paid. Do not use your agent's, or the selling agent's recommended inspectors, appraisers, etc. Find your own and find someone who is not in bed with the whole group. This includes a closing attorney. They will all scream about ethics and yada, yada, yada, but trust me, the old pat my back and I'll pat yours goes on ALL THE TIME! Bottom line, in my experience, the main objective of BOTH agents is to make the deal close and often times it becomes, make the deal close at all costs! Sad but true. The only person that is 100% vested and looking out for your interest, is yourself. Remember this at all times when making any real estate deal. At all times! You are in charge and you make the decisions. They want their commision and not much will get in the way of that.
As for agents being involved in inspection? Sure they can negotiate on paper, but for giving you advice on the nuts and bolts of what that inspection report REALLY means? Ha! Most agents know little to nothing about the mechanics and fundamentals of construction. Bring in an expert to interpret that report!
I could give you story after story of HOW experienced Realtors help their buyers but I am not here to try to change your mind in any way. I know what I do for my clients. I know how I help my clients. I also know when something is beyond my expertise (such as a 24 year old HVAC system) and when to call in a professional. I do not pretend to know everything (although there are plenty of unexperienced buyers and sellers that will tell you that they do) but I do have the resources to get the right answers and the knowledge to know the difference!
There are so many inacurate statements in the above post. I am not going to debate them at all. However, if you learn ONE THING today...let me be the one to teach you...the appraiser is NOT hired by the listing agent or the selling agent but by the lender so that they can verify the sales price IS the market price. Duh.
I do agree that the buyers and sellers ARE in charge and they DO make the decisions. My job is to guide those that ASK for my help and to ASSIST them to their goal (whether it is buying a new home or selling a home).
As for my income...it really is none of your business but I will agree that I get paid very well for doing an excellent job. I often wonder why people are so jealous of others...is it always about money???
I could give you story after story of HOW experienced Realtors help their buyers but I am not here to try to change your mind in any way. I know what I do for my clients. I know how I help my clients. I also know when something is beyond my expertise (such as a 24 year old HVAC system) and when to call in a professional. I do not pretend to know everything (although there are plenty of unexperienced buyers and sellers that will tell you that they do) but I do have the resources to get the right answers and the knowledge to know the difference!
There are so many inacurate statements in the above post. I am not going to debate them at all. However, if you learn ONE THING today...let me be the one to teach you...the appraiser is NOT hired by the listing agent or the selling agent but by the lender so that they can verify the sales price IS the market price. Duh.
I do agree that the buyers and sellers ARE in charge and they DO make the decisions. My job is to guide those that ASK for my help and to ASSIST them to their goal (whether it is buying a new home or selling a home).
As for my income...it really is none of your business but I will agree that I get paid very well for doing an excellent job. I often wonder why people are so jealous of others...is it always about money???
Vicki
In my opinion, it is moments like these when a good agent will show they are good. Vicki, you're alright by my book. I know there are good agents out there. Perhaps I've just bumped into the bad ones, I don't know. I have sincerely had some very bad experiences with agents. My point and you agreed with me, is that as the buyer, it is your money and you need to be in charge. If you read my second post on this thread, I acknowledged an agent is helpful when buying a home and can help find you a great deal. I have the utmost respect for an agent who will loose an occasiona deal in the interest of what is best for their client. I sincerely do. So far, I've only met one agent who showed this ability.
As for the appraiser, my last few deals were cash, so I got to pick as there was no bank involved. My agent handed me their list and I said thanks, but I would find my own. The inspection thing, long story, we won't even go there. I'll just say I got burned and burned bad by the agent's inspector. This agent had this inspector do about 75% of her homes she sold. Total BS!
As long as you are ethical and honestly try and do the best you can for your clients, I have no problem with realtors. They do have value in a real estate deal. One pet peeve of mine regarding agents and perhaps a piece of advise too. Why is that that most (not all) will be your best friend, want to meet you kids, have you over for a barbeque and a shoulder to cry on, when the deal is in the making, but you never hear from them again once that ink dries? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a needy person, but lets just be up front. Don't act like I'm your best friend and then tell me to go fly a kite after the deal is done. That always drove me nuts. Again, not you Vicki, but in general. I guess it is things like this that set the good agents apart from the bad ones.
One pet peeve of mine regarding agents and perhaps a piece of advise too. Why is that that most (not all) will be your best friend, want to meet you kids, have you over for a barbeque and a shoulder to cry on, when the deal is in the making, but you never hear from them again once that ink dries? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a needy person, but lets just be up front. Don't act like I'm your best friend and then tell me to go fly a kite after the deal is done. That always drove me nuts. Again, not you Vicki, but in general. I guess it is things like this that set the good agents apart from the bad ones.
That hasn't been my experience at all --- but then again Vicki is my realtor!!! When are we going to Angus Barn, Vicki???
In my opinion, it is moments like these when a good agent will show they are good. Vicki, you're alright by my book. I know there are good agents out there. Perhaps I've just bumped into the bad ones, I don't know. I have sincerely had some very bad experiences with agents. My point and you agreed with me, is that as the buyer, it is your money and you need to be in charge. If you read my second post on this thread, I acknowledged an agent is helpful when buying a home and can help find you a great deal. I have the utmost respect for an agent who will loose an occasiona deal in the interest of what is best for their client. I sincerely do. So far, I've only met one agent who showed this ability.
As for the appraiser, my last few deals were cash, so I got to pick as there was no bank involved. My agent handed me their list and I said thanks, but I would find my own. The inspection thing, long story, we won't even go there. I'll just say I got burned and burned bad by the agent's inspector. This agent had this inspector do about 75% of her homes she sold. Total BS!
As long as you are ethical and honestly try and do the best you can for your clients, I have no problem with realtors. They do have value in a real estate deal. One pet peeve of mine regarding agents and perhaps a piece of advise too. Why is that that most (not all) will be your best friend, want to meet you kids, have you over for a barbeque and a shoulder to cry on, when the deal is in the making, but you never hear from them again once that ink dries? Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a needy person, but lets just be up front. Don't act like I'm your best friend and then tell me to go fly a kite after the deal is done. That always drove me nuts. Again, not you Vicki, but in general. I guess it is things like this that set the good agents apart from the bad ones.
Thank you for at least acknowledging that you cannot lump all Realtors into the same basket.
As for being your best friend...
When you are buying a new home, it is very easy to be best friends with your Realtor, especially if you are new to the area. I have a great time with my clients and yes, I get to know their kids and sometimes the grandparents and the aunts and uncles, as they all move down!
I keep quite a few of my clients as friends. I talk to them often and email often. Ask Kwalk how long our conversations can last! However, there are many clients that I may only keep in contact with yearly. People have their own lives to lead. Not everyone WANTS to be my new best friend!!!
I refer lenders, inspectors, attorneys all the time. I never force my buyers/sellers to use them. Most people do not even know an attorney and value my opinion when I refer one to them. I have referred many of them to people on this forum that are not my clients. "My" granite guy is pretty happy with all the people from this forum that have used him and I'm happy they were satisfied. I got nothing from that other than a few who said "thanks.".
I realize that it takes on bad experience to ruin it for you. I had a crappy dentist once but that didn't stop me from going to another dentist!!!
Since I have been in real estate which is only 3 years I have had many clients, and I keep up with each and every one of them through emails, phone calls and have even had many of them over my place for dinner, and I have been to theirs for barbeques etc...I am not in it for the money, like was said in this thread. My job is to do the best I can do for my client, and see that they get the best home that fits their needs, and that that home has no major issues. If it does, I have no problem with walking away with my client and looking elsewhere. I do use an inspector that I think is awesome, and use him whenever I can. If the home has any issues he is finding it, and if for some reason it is found after because of something he missed, he has no problem paying for the repair. I feel I do protect my client's to the best of my ability, and if there is something I am not quite sure of you can best bet I do my homework and get the right person that can help. It takes a lot of time an work, and I am sorry if some of you have run across some agents that are slack, and I have seen some myself, but I don't like to be lumped together with people that don't do their job's and have the same title as me. Plenty of good agents in this area that do the same thing as me, you just have to find them :-) If you choose to do this on your own without an agent, perfectly fine but don't push that issue on others that really want and need the help of a good agent. Our job is we are here to help you not hurt you.
Enjoy the rest of the day,
Debbie
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but I do have the resources to get the right answers and the knowledge to know the difference!
