What are options with worthless land? (Raleigh: maintenance, install, guidelines)

[NativesKnow]

I must say that your Realtor should have warned you about the perk issues in Lake Royale. It is widely known that some of the lots have problems. I know it is hard to think about filing a complaint and our Real Estate Commission does not neccessarily make it easy but I believe you have a valid complaint based on the fact that you indicated you wanted to build on the lots. Let's say you want to keep the lot for the purpose you first intended. I agree that it may be worth your while to hire a soils engineer to determine if alternative sewer systems may work on this lot. There are many new types of septic systems that may work for you. Here is a website to go to learn more about those types of systems and the appeals process needed to get those approved for your lot. The NC Department of Environment and Natural Resources and the Division of Environmental Health www.deh.enr.state.nc.us Look under Onsite Water Protection on the Quick Links. There are all kinds of info there including some info on "what happens if my land is not suitable for onsite sewer?". The suggestion to go to the HOA and offer the land for common area I think is good idea but understand that usually the HOA does not have a tremendous amount of funds to persue purchases like that. I do know that there have been a few lots taken in foreclosure by the HOA and resold. Not sure how much they would be willing to pay you.

I do hope you find a resolution to your problem. I know it is frustrating.

[ducter]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

Who confirmed that the land does not perc? The county health department or a NC licensed soil scientist or both? It might be worth your while to get a second opinion to make sure a special albeit more expensive treatment system couldn't be used on the land. I would want to be 100% sure before I wrote off the land as "worthless".

I second that. A true pro might be able to get a special system in there.

[VickiR]

Lake Royale has alot of issues, land that doesn't perk is just one.

Before you call the RE Commission to file a complaint, look over your contract. If you signed the "vacant land" contract, it plainly states that you can ask the sellers to show documentation that the land perks or that you have ample time to have it tested, yourself.

READ your contracts, people. Open your eyes. Talk to the neighbors.

Vicki

[RKJ4107]

If it doesn't perk you can always use a Turkey Hill

[mdp_az]

If you truly do have no recourse, the land won't perk at all, and your simply stuck with it, why not consider having a large cistern buried on the lot and having water trucked in. Use a greywater recycling system in your home and then a "water garden" or some other natural filtering method on your lot to naturally clean the greywater once it finally exits the home (after 2 uses in most cases).

For bio-waste, install dry composting toilets that you "flush" with sawdust and that create a great soil conditioner for plantings on your lot.

[Jane0218]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

Who confirmed that the land does not perc? The county health department or a NC licensed soil scientist or both? It might be worth your while to get a second opinion to make sure a special albeit more expensive treatment system couldn't be used on the land. I would want to be 100% sure before I wrote off the land as "worthless".

Wow...thanks for all the replies.

The county and the state have looked at the lot and determined it will not perc. A soil scientist will run around $500. and even if he/she deems it can perc, the county can still say NO to building a house. They apparently have the final say in this.

We want to sell, not build. We have moved out of state.

Yes, it's in Lake Royale. No, it's no a waterfront lot. It's a residential lot, not a camping lot. It's at the back side of the lake.

We have already lost $3,000 on the land, due to current economic conditions. It's not cleared of trees, which we have been told would cost about $3,000 (we thought about somehow building the lot up so it would perc--but clearing the lot would cost too much).

The POA has been asked if they would like the lot as a trade for another lot (that seems to be one of the recourses that people have actually been able to do, according to our current real estate agent, who sold all our other lots for us). The POA is not interested in the lot as a trade. We never actually asked if they wanted to purchase it, so that we could try, but they will probably say no.

I do not see anything in the contract about 'perc'ing the lot. I read everything. If I missed it, then I missed it. Remember, we were from out of state and had just moved there, never having heard of or known of 'perc'ing.

There's no nearby municipal sewer system.

What is "plainly stated" to someone who lives in NC and is a real estate agent may not be "plainly stated" to someone who is not from the area. If I saw the word 'perc' anywhere, I would have asked about it. I guess if someone here on this forum says it's on the contract, then I guess it is and we missed it. The real estate agent kept telling us (because we asked at least 20 times) that all the lots we were purchasing were buildable. That's all we had to go on. The lot was dry and bigger than most in the community, and on a corner. It's a great lot except that the county and state say we can't perc it.

I guess we could ask the POA if they would buy it. If not, we could see if they would take it as a donation.

Thank you all for you responses. Great suggestions, all of them, even the ones we can't use.

[MikeJaquish]

Originally Posted by Jane0218

Wow...thanks for all the replies.

The county and the state have looked at the lot and determined it will not perc. A soil scientist will run around $500. and even if he/she deems it can perc, the county can still say NO to building a house. They apparently have the final say in this.

We want to sell, not build. We have moved out of state.

Yes, it's in Lake Royale. No, it's no a waterfront lot. It's a residential lot, not a camping lot. It's at the back side of the lake.

We have already lost $3,000 on the land, due to current economic conditions. It's not cleared of trees, which we have been told would cost about $3,000 (we thought about somehow building the lot up so it would perc--but clearing the lot would cost too much).

The POA has been asked if they would like the lot as a trade for another lot (that seems to be one of the recourses that people have actually been able to do, according to our current real estate agent, who sold all our other lots for us). The POA is not interested in the lot as a trade. We never actually asked if they wanted to purchase it, so that we could try, but they will probably say no.

I do not see anything in the contract about 'perc'ing the lot. I read everything. If I missed it, then I missed it. Remember, we were from out of state and had just moved there, never having heard of or known of 'perc'ing.

There's no nearby municipal sewer system.

What is "plainly stated" to someone who lives in NC and is a real estate agent may not be "plainly stated" to someone who is not from the area. If I saw the word 'perc' anywhere, I would have asked about it. I guess if someone here on this forum says it's on the contract, then I guess it is and we missed it. The real estate agent kept telling us (because we asked at least 20 times) that all the lots we were purchasing were buildable. That's all we had to go on. The lot was dry and bigger than most in the community, and on a corner. It's a great lot except that the county and state say we can't perc it.

I guess we could ask the POA if they would buy it. If not, we could see if they would take it as a donation.

Thank you all for you responses. Great suggestions, all of them, even the ones we can't use.

"Perk" or "perc" are slang terms, and not used in the standard paperwork and have no real legal definition.
Basically, the Buyer, with the Buyer Agent's assistance should confirm the suitability of the land for a ground absorption on-site septic system.
The "ground absorption" phrase is key, to avoid entrapment of a Buyer in a transaction where the only approved system is a very expensive low pressure spray, etc.

Does the Contract to Purchase you used in NO place indicate that you could have required an option to confirm the suitability of the lot for on-site septic, or a contingency option for you to cancel if you cannot get an Improvement permit, or that a septic permit for a certain number of bedroom structures has already been pulled, etc?

No pun intended, but your situation just stinks...

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by mdp_az

If you truly do have no recourse, the land won't perk at all, and your simply stuck with it, why not consider having a large cistern buried on the lot and having water trucked in. Use a greywater recycling system in your home and then a "water garden" or some other natural filtering method on your lot to naturally clean the greywater once it finally exits the home (after 2 uses in most cases).

For bio-waste, install dry composting toilets that you "flush" with sawdust and that create a great soil conditioner for plantings on your lot.

Great Green Development Ideas!!!!

[Jane0218]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

Does the Contract to Purchase you used in NO place indicate that you could have required an option to confirm the suitability of the lot for on-site septic, or a contingency option for you to cancel if you cannot get an Improvement permit, or that a septic permit for a certain number of bedroom structures has already been pulled, etc?

No pun intended, but your situation just stinks...

I will check on the wording (I'm at work now). I assume it's a standard Offer to Purchase Vacant Land contract for NC, though.

Re: Buyer's Agent: I'm not sure if the real estate agent we used was acting as a Buyer's Agent (on our side) or Selling Agent (not on our side). I don't recall signing anything before we looked at the lots. I believe my husband spoke with him on the phone, told him what we wanted and how much we wanted to spend. Then they made an appointment and they came to the house we had just purchased in the community. We followed (father and son) around to the different lots.

[Jane0218]

Originally Posted by MikeJaquish

Does the Contract to Purchase you used in NO place indicate that you could have required an option to confirm the suitability of the lot for on-site septic, or a contingency option for you to cancel if you cannot get an Improvement permit, or that a septic permit for a certain number of bedroom structures has already been pulled, etc?

No pun intended, but your situation just stinks...

I have checked everywhere, and I have no copies of the Offer to Purchase and Contract--Vacant Lot/Land--for ANY of the 4 lots I purchased through that real estate agent. I don't know why---I am usually very particular about these things. I took a look at the contracts I have on file for when we sold 3 of the lots, and they all contain an Item 13: PROPERTY INSPECTION, with 2 alternatives (alternative 2 relates to Option Fee purchases). I imagine my contract would have been the same or similar.

Does anyone know if there is a NC regulation which requires the real estate agent to keep a copy of the Offer to Purchase for a certain amount of time? If my real estate agent should have a copy, and he says he "can't find it," would I have any recourse (re: filing a complaint, etc.)?

Would the lawyer who handled the original purchase be required to have a copy of the Offer to Purchase?

ANY help would be appreciated!