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Property taxes are public records and searchable on the wake county website. There are a number of search options (owner, address) and for vehicle tax bills you can search by license plate #
Aside from my personal interest in how you obtained the information in your original post, I am wondering what prompted you to start this thread? Are issues taken with your present landlord? Were there matters of public policy that ignored a renter's perspective simply because that policy is supported by taxes derived from property, thus giving more credence to the holder of title? Or was the original post simply rhetorical?
Being a renter and a property owner myself, I do believe I understand the facts regarding this issue. When an acquired 'bundle of rights' (property) is used for rental purposes, it essentially becomes a going concern, a 'business' for lack of a better word. That business must consider numerous factors in order to stay afloat just like any other business. Some of those factors include maintenance costs, debt service, various other expenses, fees, permits, depreciation, appreciation, rental values, insurance, litigation, capital gains, losses and many other components including property tax and other taxes. A huge responsibility not attempted by just anyone (though a lot of anyone's have attempted).
So, when you say that a renter is paying the taxes, it might be true to a degree in that a rent a potential renter is will to pay in exchange for use of a dwelling reflects part of the cost of running such a rental property business. It also holds true that your rent reflects part of the other elements I mentioned in the previous paragraph and more.
However, the rent paid is also, and heavily, based on what the market will bear. What the market will bear does not necessarily result in a profit for the person holding the bundle of rights (the property). The person holding those rights could be supporting a negative cash flow, or a monthly loss. But that's an investment risk the title holder has obviously chosen to bear in hopes of recouping that loss later down the road (for whatever hopeful or planned reason).
The renter exchanges cash for dwelling. A barter, if you will, trading one thing for another on a month to month basis (or per various contract options). Mind you, a renter has their own set of rights too. But not the same bundle of rights as the holder of title nor must a renter maintain those rights. The rights are legally separate, though similar in many instances.
Having truly glossed over the whole scheme of owning/renting since it gets quite detailed, the reality is that the person a renter pays for a dwelling must maintain those bundle of rights, or else. The title holder is, indeed, the one paying the taxes. Not the renter. The renter only pays a rent based on the upkeep of property in conjunction with what the title holder can get on the market. Hopefully, they make a profit.
Yes, costs may be passed down to the renter but the renter does not actually pay the property taxes nor carries the burden of anything associated with maintaining that responsibility. No offense intended, but renters are simply customers that come and go based on needs, desires and contract limitations. Title holders to property simply (or with great complexity) maintain the business that renters hopefully enjoy, for better or worse.
It's really not a big deal, is it? Or is it? And why?
I'm very happy with my landlord and started the thread to counter the often expressed posts inferring that tenants get a "free ride". As I read the problems others have with home maintenance, I look skyward and offer up a blessing to Drucker and Falk.
Just prepared Christmas cards to accompany the holiday gratuities I'll give to the staff at my complex.
In fact, we tenants get shafted in every orifice because of the bias in the tax code toward owning vs renting.
I'm very happy with my landlord and started the thread to counter the often expressed posts inferring that tenants get a "free ride". As I read the problems others have with home maintenance, I look skyward and offer up a blessing to Drucker and Falk.
Just prepared Christmas cards to accompany the holiday gratuities I'll give to the staff at my complex.
In fact, we tenants get shafted in every orifice because of the bias in the tax code toward owning vs renting.
Tax should generate revenue, not govern behavior.
Your landlord may just be quite agreeable to you paying the tax bill and taking the deduction.
It might be worth asking him to split it among the residents.
I would suggest doing it privately, however...
You point out routinely that the benefits of renting outweigh the responsibilities of owning, yet regularly want to eat the owners' cake, too.
I'm very happy with my landlord and started the thread to counter the often expressed posts inferring that tenants get a "free ride". As I read the problems others have with home maintenance, I look skyward and offer up a blessing to Drucker and Falk.
Just prepared Christmas cards to accompany the holiday gratuities I'll give to the staff at my complex.
In fact, we tenants get shafted in every orifice because of the bias in the tax code toward owning vs renting.
Tax should generate revenue, not govern behavior.
I don't see anybody saying renters get a free ride. Let's face it, there a many other taxes out there we all pay besides personal property tax on homes.
I still think the logic in your "renters pay property tax" is quite flawed. Mike J made some good points that I haven't seen refuted. I am eager to hear a detailed discussion about opportunity cost.
I certainly want to be fair and unbiased, but I do sense there is something more to that prompted the discussion. However, the actuality may be beside the point, I want to respond to your responses appropriately:
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan
I'm very happy with my landlord and started the thread to counter the often expressed posts inferring that tenants get a "free ride".
I don't know if I have read the posts you refer, but I suspect the general consensus is that absolutely no renter gets a free ride. You, along with other renters, are paying for something in exchange for something else. Doesn't sound free to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan
In fact, we tenants get shafted in every orifice because of the bias in the tax code toward owning vs renting.
Well, part of this is absolutely true. There is bias in tax code. I say this since something must get taxed, and in order to perform that, bias must come into play. But, oftentimes, I hear taxpayers more upset about receiving the bias rather than avoiding the bias. I would be quite happy as property title holder if property taxes were diverted toward those who rent instead of those who own. I wouldn't say that was fair, but I am more than willing to specifically assign property taxes to a renter (and if the renter enjoys the deduction as a result, so be it). I'd rather not pay a tax for the sake of a deduction, anyway.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturnfan
Tax should generate revenue, not govern behavior.
Tax does generate revenue. No doubt about that. How that revenue is spent is a whole other can of worms, but taxes are inherently designed to generate revenue. Absolutely, positively, matter of fact.
However, taxes do govern behavior as well. No way around that. I imagine every educated and wise consuming taxpayer is aware how a tax affects their way of life. When we file our returns for the previous year, the entire year is made up of choices, calculations and plans to lessen the blow of the impending and ongoing burden of taxes. Some do this better than others, but our behavior year after year is affected by the concept of taxation. Just no way around it affecting our behavior. That's just a part of taxation.
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I am sure there will be a day when a tax is applied to a rent. I'm not going to like that at all, but those who choose to raise or create taxes are always coming up with new ways and ideas to tack a revenue stream to already taxed dollars.
As I've mentioned before, a renter pays for the use of a dwelling to reside. Sometimes there are contractual intricacies, but it's a relatively simple concept in much the same way as any other transaction. A renter is conducting business with a title holder. The title owner, who can also be the landlord, utilizes their property as a business opportunity in a completely separate line of activities and cost. This, separate from the line of activities associated with renting a dwelling.
Mind you, a renter can also be a landlord. Subletting leasing rights happens frequently depending on region, code and contracts. But, that, too becomes a separate line of business with it's own risks, profits and losses. And if you do make a profit, rest assured that the renter turned landlord will get taxed on that profit.
But that still does not mean that a renter is paying that property tax nor is expected to take any responsibility to pay that tax. The person (or entity) that holds title is responsible for those taxes and they are the ones who must be responsible by paying the tax. Else, that bundle of property rights can, in time, be rescinded.
Are you personally on the Wake County tax records? Do you receive a bill for your apartment? Renters do not pay property taxes. You will argue otherwise, so I suggest calling the WCRD and asking them how much you owe in 2008 property taxes. The complex owner pays property taxes. You pay rent only. Taxes are a property OWNERS responsibility. I own two rental properties. I would love it if my tenants would pay my property taxes. They pay me rent. Pretty simple concept.
Am I the only one who totally understands uncletupelo's point?
You don't pay property taxes. You just pay $8,400 - $20,400 a year to some rich guy or corporation. Congratulations!
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