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Location: Between a nook-a-ler reactor and a dump, North Cackalacky
283 posts, read 1,259,603 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargainmom
Pure breed dogs are bred to a standard that includes temperamental characteristics. Of course there are SOME individual dogs that will greatly vary from that breed's temperament but the variance is the exception, not the rule.
Exactly. But you conveniently missed the part in this thread citing scientific, empirical studies that pit bulls and AmStaffs score highest on the recognized temperament tests.
So while there are some exceptions amongst pits and Staffs (due to bad owners? Hmmm.....), they have the best temperament. Thanks for reinforcing the point here.
If you were to read the history of the pits and AmStaffs, what becomes very clear is these breeds are from descendants that were not fighters and did not exhibit human aggression. So this dog was bred for very specific attributes and dogs that did not meet the criteria were excluded from the pool. The AKC and UKC are adamant about this.
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I applaud anyone who approaches any dog with caution. I do as well, regardless of breed. I would suggest that aside from being cautious, if the dog exhibits the temperament and disposition of a well-behaved and socialized dog and provides affection to you and/or your children, you start easing up on stereotypes.
Falls Forks, you've got to be kidding, right? How DARE you compare Japanese Americans to dogs? Vicious dogs with case after case after case of attacking and mauling, and killing women and children.
I didn't compare Japanese-Americans to dogs. I compared ignorant and over-reactive people in the 30's and 40's to ignorant and over-reactive people today.
Dogs tend to attack the face of children for a few reasons. First off, young children don't understand comfort zones or how to interpret moods/actions. This causes them to agitate dogs and get in their face. For example, its pretty common to see a child "swat" at a parents face, tug on its ears and lips, etc. Children do the same thing to dogs. They also like to look it eye to eye from a couple of inches away. They don't notice the dogs getting visibly uncomfortable and upset. We have to be very cautious when the neighborhood kids come to pet our dog because they are very rough and forceful with her (she's just 26 pounds) and our can get very bothered (enough to make her growl). Some dogs will respond with a snap at the closest thing, either the face or a hand. I think parents should be very cautious with any dog and young children, but that has absolutely nothing to do with banning a breed.
lauren4521 was dead on in her post and 100% in the right in the disagreement with her neighbor. Leash laws are very important and it is troubling how few people obey them.
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I'm SURE there are nice pit bulls out there. It doesn't matter, because the nice ones have also suddenly turned on children and killed them.
I'm sure there are nice parents out there. It doesn't matter because the nice ones have also suddenly turned on their kids and killed them.
I'm sure there are nice teens out there. It doesn't matter because the nice ones have also suddenly turned on other teens and killed them.
I'm sure there are nice horses out there. It doesn't matter because the nice ones have also suddenly turned on riders and killed them.
Shall I go on?
Remember, in any given year deer will kill 70 times the number of people that pit bulls will and horses will kill 50 times as many.
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I agree with the person who said that to legally own a pit bull perhaps there should be special licensing. Anyone who has a criminal record, even a single conviction, should be banned from owning a pit bull.
I wish there was a license and testing procedure for dog ownership in general. The vast majority of dog owners do not properly take care of their dog (meaning socialization, training, nutrition, preventative medicine, etc). People don't understand that leaving a dog in a pin in the back yard or even isolated in the yard with an invisible fence (these things should be outlawed) that you only make it more protective/territorial and more aggressive.
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So if I walk my children away from a dog, particularly a breed with a very strong jaw full of sharp teeth, I'm stupid and ignorant?
What I find hard to understand is how quickly dog owners dismiss those with dogs who bite as "bad" owners. I believe many of them when they say they never saw signs of aggression in their dogs.
I mentioned the leashed pitbull that lunged at my 2yo one day and from then on barked at my children. If that were your pitbull would you consider that the first sign of aggression? If so, what would you do about it?
You are perfectly in the right to walk your young kids away from a large breed. We dismiss it so often because the majority of owners create the temperament in their dog through caging, leaving alone in the back yard, little socialization, never getting proper training, etc. Its the same way so many kids that seem normal end up being sociopaths because of very bad parenting. A kid doesn't have to be beaten or abused, years of neglect and emotional distance create larger problems that will eventually emerge. The same applies to a dog. Yes, that leashed pitbull has an aggression issue, but it can probably be corrected with dog training. The problem is that most owners only want a dog as an ornament or occasional toy that can be forgot about at times.
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What's ignorant is thinking that dogs should have priority over humans. I think that is pathetic and sad.
A parent's greatest instinct should be to protect his or her children, not to "experiment" on them putting their lives at risk so that a dog owner won't be offended.
No one says they have priority over humans, that is idiotic. What we are saying is that this ban will achieve nothing and that its not a dog problem, its a people problem (much like drunk-driving and guns). No one is experimenting or pushing the limits. Hell, more than 1,000 children die each year from ingesting poison found within a house. The kitchen is one of the most dangerous places for kids but we don't think its atrocious for parents to still have kitchens in their house. Those parents aren't experimenting or pushing the limits, accidents happen and the same goes for dogs. I bet more children die from a mother falling asleep on them and smothering them than from pitbull attacks (3 per year).
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That being said I still fear pit bulls because they have such powerful jaws.
Your excessive and unfounded fear is like that of the women who crosses the street and clutches her purse when she passes a young black man in baggy clothing. People try to defend those behaviors citing statistics about higher violent crime, murder, and incarceration rates among black men as opposed to the rest of the population but its ridiculous.
Location: Between a nook-a-ler reactor and a dump, North Cackalacky
283 posts, read 1,259,603 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by tee-tee
If you were to read the history of the pits and AmStaffs, what becomes very clear is these breeds are from descendants that were not fighters and did not exhibit human aggression. So this dog was bred for very specific attributes and dogs that did not meet the criteria were excluded from the pool. The AKC and UKC are adamant about this.
Replying to my own post for an edit, hadn't had my coffee this morning.
What I meant to say is that the registered American Pit Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers can not be bred from dogs that fought or exhibited human aggression. Granted your neighborhood pit or AmStaff may not be registered, but s/he is just as likely to have the breed traits as the Lab, poodle, or Spaniel around the corner.
Now I'm not a PhD or mathemetician, but these numbers sort of indicate people are blowing this "problem" way out of proportion.
Conversely, FBI preliminary stats for 2006 indicate there were 16,692 homicides in the U.S.
We need licensing, temperament tests, education, DNA testing, and so on for those who wish to have children.
BTW I am more likely to be killed by one of your children or a serial killer than by a pit or similar breed (or any dog). So tell me again, what is the problem?
Rescued pit bulls areno more dangerous than other rescued dogs..
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargainmom
WHOAH! You would WILLINGLY choose a rescue pit bull? One that may have been abused? And there are children in your household? That is frightening to me, and to many people.
I'm SURE there are nice pit bulls out there. It doesn't matter, because the nice ones have also suddenly turned on children and killed them.
It has been said that a Pit Bull never met a stranger. They love and adore humans. They want so much to be apart of your family and spend time with you watching tv, walking, driving, etc. I have seen severely abused and neglected Pit Bulls who see you coming and they can't wait to be petted and loved. Even after the abuse, they want nothing more than to be with a family of their own! As with any breed there are exceptions to the normal temperament and behavior. We see this in humans as well, there are good ones and bad ones. I know many "pit bulls" that are rescues and live in a home with children. They are wonderful with the kids. They will lay there and let you use them as a pillow. They let the children pull on their ears, mess with their paws, play with their tails and the only thing they have ever done to the children is love them. They get so excited when the kids are around. Those kids are their world!... As far as adopting a dog from a shelter, american pit bull terriers, american staffordshire terriers, and staffordshire bull terriers are no more dangerous than any of the other dogs there. They put these recued dogs through many different kinds of "tests" in many different situations. If the dog isnt safe to be put in a home with children or other pets they tell you that. If the dog isnt able to be put in a home atall they put it to sleep. They dont allow dangerous dogs to be adopted out. You should judge the dog that you are going to adopt on the results of the tests they were put through and on how the dog reacts to you family and acts around your family. American pit bulls terriers and American staffordshire terriers always rank above many popular family pets in temperament tests... Most "pit bulls" are great with children, they are the perfect breed to tolerate the rough and tumble play that kids can dish out. "pit bulls" tend to be drawn to the joful optimism of children and love to meet them with tails wagging! Just like with any breed, not all "pit bulls" are suitable to have around young children because they could knock them down in their exhuberance. It is common sense that children should be taught how to properly interact with dogs (of every breed) and should never be left alone with any dog.
No breed of dog just turns on people. Dog aggression is nearly always preceded by some kind of warning, and there is always a reason behind the attack. However, many inexperienced owners do not recognize the dogs behavior as aggression, or refuse to acknowledge it as a warning sign. The only exception I can think of is Springer Rage, a rare and controversial neurological condition that manifests itself as a spontaneous attack, followed by confusion, and then a return to normal behavior. "Pit Bulls" are NOT prone to this condition. There are individual dogs of any breed that may be more aggressive to others... There is also a rumor that "pit bulls" brains swell and they go crazy and turn on you.. thats so stupid! This rumor started with the Doberman, and has since been said about game-bred dogs in general. The concept of an animal's brain swelling or growing too large and somehow causing the animal to "go crazy" is not based in truth in any way. Their brains grow at the same rate as any other dog, and the only time that a "Pit Bulls" brain is going to swell is if it receives a serious injury. If an animals brain were to grow too big for its head, the animal would die. But anyway.. my point is that I disagree with what was said about rescued "pit bulls" and "pit bulls" being around children, and the facts and statistics show that "pit bulls" are no worse to have around children than any other breed, and infact they are better with children than alot of other breeds.
just say NO to pit bulls....they should be banned in any city limits as far as i am concerned.
I do not understand why you would want to ban a specific breed that is like banning a certain race because they cause more murders
The owner is the problem not the living precious life of a animal.
You are more likely to be killed by a deer in a car wreck so is banning Deer next.
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Rescued pit bulls areno more dangerous than other rescued dogs..
