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I am traveling for 15 days through the south, Texas, and Midwest with my business partner (and my mother for moral support) to choose a city to relocate to. We are bringing our business with us so looking for somewhere that suits our business (our business thrives on young families) and somewhere that is still enjoyable for people in their young 20’s (we are 23). Although we are looking at 10 cities, our main choices are Raleigh, Austin, and Charlotte. Although this trip will be short, and we will only get to see each city for one day, we will travel back to our final choice(s). We have done so much research (especially on CD!) so we have all the acts about economy, population growth, crime, etc. We are just now going on overall experience.
Here is our review of the RDC area. Unfortunately we did not take photos yet, but will begin to in Charlotte. We hope you find the review helpful and are still looking for some relocation tips as well.
Overall we find The Triangle to be very green and beautiful. We come from CT which green itself too and were surprised by how beautiful it was- we can see why many people are moving here. Although we got cold weather, it was very sunny and we like how much open sky there was. We visited on a Saturday so the traffic was great, and although it was more of a dead day, I can tell the traffic in RDC will be mimimal compared to what we’re used to. We loved how many restaurants there were in the area (chain and independent). The area was very clean and everything seemed new. Although we’ve heard some people say otherwise, we felt even the new developments were visually appealing and went well with the older structures. Everyone was very nice and although we know some N. Carolinians are unhappy with the growth, everyone we spoke to was very welcoming.
Durham:
We visited Durham first as we were interested in more inexpensive urban housing. We really liked the brick look of the town and Bright Leaf square was appealing (although seemed quite expensive and small). We feel very torn about Durham. When we were there it wasn’t very busy (a cold Saturday afternoon) so if anyone has any feedback about this interpretation please let us know. We feel that the town has great potential but just worry about the crime rate. As a 23 year old woman, I felt safe in the area- but the mother the group felt more concerned about low income housing. The 21 year old girls working at the hotel we stayed in in Raleigh said they would never live in durham- too grungy and unsafe. We are taking that with a grain of salt. Any opinions?
Our business is art related so we looked into the Golden Belt. It’s a new live work area for artists. Extremely affordable and gorgeous- but it is about 1.5 miles away from Duke/Downtown Durham and through some more questionable areas. Any experience with this?
We also liked West a lot. Unique lofts for the price. Definitely our style.
We ate lunch at Alivia’s across from Brightleaf and really enjoyed it. Cool place with good prices. Unfortunately we did not see Durham at night so we are curious as to what the night life is like. Where do most people hang out? If we choose the Triangle area, we will definitely check Durham out more. It felt desolate when we were there to an extent, but we do realize it’s up and coming. Do you think this was rare and probably due to the cold? Thank you in advance. We really liked Durham for a lot of reasons.
Cary:
Although we would not consider moving to Cary necessarily, as young professionals, many of our clients would be located there so we wanted to check out the area to get a vibe for it. Although I’ve heard some Cary bashing on here before, we thought it was a beautiful area. The parks and vegetation were great. I’m from Connecticut which is known for charm but I found Cary to be equally charming in it’s own ways. I was shocked by how many developments kept trees between houses. I did not the track housing feeling at all and although I realize there are areas in Cary like that- the overall impression was that it was a beautiful town.
People have complained about strip malls on here, but we liked all of the options for shopping and dining. They were very convenient and nicely designed. The housing choices were many from large subdivisions to more wooded streets with older homes to tons of condos and apartments. Overall we really liked Cary and can see the appeal for a lot of people.
Raleigh:
The downtown was smaller in ways than we expected mostly because so much of it was the business district which was pretty empty (it was a Saturday). We loved Glenwood south, but were hoping for a few more areas like it. Overall we found the city to be easy to drive through, attractive looking, and clean. We didn’t get to explore it too much as it was getting dark but it seemed like a pretty typical nice city. It seemed very safe too in the areas we were in- Glenwood.
Any advice or commentary on downtown Raleigh would be greatly appreciated as we couldn’t check it out as much we liked due to the sun going down. Any apartment suggestions downtown? We are looking at a $1200 budget or so.
I guess we’re curious to know if it’s worth it to live in Downtown Raleigh or if it smarter to live outside of the beltline or in the Cary area. Is living in downtown Raleigh worth it for walking to restaurants, stores, etc? Or are you paying a higher price without the extra conveniences? While we have our heart set on a downtown location, we are willing to possibly compromise and live right outside of downtown if living downtown isn’t too beneficial. Please let me know what you think.
We went to dinner at Hi5 on Glenwood which we loved! Everything on the menu is 5 dollars except for drinks (some less some more). The portions were huge and the atmosphere was great- a sports bar but a more swanky upscale version of one- and not too loud. Our bill came to $29.00 for 3 people (3 meals, 2 drinks).
After we went to Solas which is the closest thing to a club I was told. I was told there are about 2 other clubs in Raleigh just not on Glenwood. While we’re not huge club people, we like to have availability for occasions. How is the club scene? We didn’t see a lot of young people out (it was a very cold Saturday night) but we retired to our hotel room at 10:30 due to driving for 12 hours the night before. Was it just too early?
Overall there seemed to be a great mix of bars and restaurants on Glenwood. We didn’t venture out of Glenwood so any advice on the other areas of downtown Raleigh would be great.
Boylan Heights seemed nice, although not too different from any downtown suburb and we didn’t get to explore it much. We will head back through Raleigh for an hour in 2 weeks on our way back to CT and will check out Locopops for fun.
Chapel Hill:
We spent the morning in Chapel Hill- mostly just getting breakfast. We ate at Ye Olde Waffle Shoppe (I think that’s the name of it) and it was a great inexpensive breakfast place. It’s very loud and cramped but has a great old fashioned feel.
Franklin Street was very nice and had a great feel to it. Very much a college town. We felt although many would consider it charm, and we do to an extent, it looked a bit more run down than the rest of the Triangle area. We do understand that’s part of the feel of it and it retains more of it’s history than some areas.
The UNC campus was beautiful and the people seemed very nice.
Carrboro was a neat area too- we didn’t realize that it’s basically a few blocks from Franklin in Chapel Hill. It was your typical small hippy neighborhood- great for people looking for more “crunchy” towns. While you can probably tell we would not want to locate there, it was great to have it right there with a lot of interesting restaurant and grocery options. We went into Weaver Sreet Market and it was fun to see the different kinds of people and fresh produce.
Overall for us Chapel Hill was probably too small (as we thought it might be) and less appealing for this chapter in our life. We were also surprised it was a whole 30 minutes from Raleigh on our GPS.
Our impressions of the Triangle Area were great. It seemed like a really appealing area to live that is growing but also retaining a lot of charm and beauty. We can see why it is so popular. The one thing that is less enjoyable about it to us is it truly is a triangle- a pretty good distance between the three towns –we probably didn’t completely realize that when doing research. While I think that brings a lot of uniqueness to the area, we’re unsure that Raleigh or Durham or CH has everything we need, and if we rely on the other areas to meet our needs- it would be a lot of traveling between the three to satisfy everything we want. It’s possible that a larger city where things are closer and more compact and everything we want can be found one complete city will be more our style, but overall the Triangle had a lot to offer for us. We realize that no area is perfect- we just need to decide what we’re willing to compromise.
We are heading to Charlotte today, followed by Greenville SC, Atlanta, Austin, Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Nashville for anyone considering similar areas- we’ll be reviewing each on the respective forums. We are expecting Charlotte to be similar in many ways and are looking forward to comparing the two. We think that Charlotte will excel in a few areas but not be as appealing in other ways- we will let you know!
Again, these are brief visits- we are just sharing our experiences. When I was researching cities I relied so much of these first time visit reviews so I thought it would be helpful to post my own. Wish us luck!
Thanks for thoughtfully sharing your experiences in the Triangle. I am sure your fresh eyes will be very helpful to others.
Let me respond to one of your questions...the one about nightlife in DT Raleigh. Downtown is typically very busy on weekend nights year round. However, you were a bit early. 10:30 is about when people start heading out for the evening. 11:30 is a better indicator of the nightlife. Also, the weather will affect the evening traffic. Colder than normal evenings will keep more folks snuggled on their sofas watching TV. I'd say that those days are typically in Jan and Feb resulting in some slower weekends. Spring comes pretty early and that usually brings the scene out of their homes.
In Downtown, the typical Glenwood South scene is not as "dancy" as much as it is "loungy". However, there are places where you can go to dance: Solas has a small dance floor as you probably noticed. There are other options for dancing in Glenwood South (namely Red Room) but most are in the Warehouse District just to the south of Glenwood South: The Office, Mosquito, Buckhead Saloon, Ess and Legends are options to explore. There are other places but their names don't come to mind right now. There are some others that turn into dance places after dining hours. I am not fully up to speed on all those options. Perhaps some others can chime in with some answers?
In the end, the Triangle is a young person's market. There is a youthfulness to its culture that is fueled by all the colleges and universities in the area and the young professionals they become when they decide to stay in the area after graduation.
Wow, thank you so much! You answered some of our most important questions- I cannot tell you how helpful that was. As we suspected, it seems we were too early for some of the night life- and that the weather definitely affects it a little! Your reply definitely adds a lot to The Triangle area for us. We will have to check out the Warehouse District next time. Thank you again!
Great job with the review. It is very impressive especially since you had such a short time here. FWIW, I am in total agreement with rnc2mbfl about the time and weather being a factor with regards to the activity you saw or didn't see in downtown Raleigh.
As far as living downtown or near downtown, I think it is worth it for the most part since it puts you "closer" to things. I would definitely live inside the beltline (ITB) if you can at the very least. If you are not interested living right in downtown in a rental around Glenwood I would strongly recommend looking into a rental house/apt in one of the historic neighborhoods that boarder the downtown area. These neighborhoods include Boylan Heights, Oakwood, Mordecai, Cameron Village, and Five Points. They have a lot of character and are very convenient to things downtown. You can usually find rentals for those areas listed on Craig’s list.
You mentioned some things about art. Did you happen to poke your head into Artspace (http://www.artspacenc.org/about_history.html - broken link) in downtown Raleigh? Lots of cool artists there with studios. You can view their work and visit with the artists during the monthly "First Friday" events held in Raleigh when all of the local studios open up their doors from 5-9 for an open house type event. I think Durham holds similar events on "Third Fridays". FWIW, I would take a good look at Durham since in many ways I think they have a "leg up" on Raleigh with regards to the art scene.
Here are some threads with photos I have posted in the past about Downtown Raleigh and one or two about Durham that might help you since you didn't get a chance to view everything due to limited time. I also highly suggest you Google the following two websites (Bull City Rising, and New Raleigh) both are great blogs filled with an incredible amount of quality information about both cities. They also provide links to numerous other blogs about Raleigh and Durham. Good Luck not matter what State or city you end up in!
Triangel Area Related Links that may be of interest:
I am traveling for 15 days through the south, Texas, and Midwest with my business partner (and my mother for moral support) to choose a city to relocate to. We are bringing our business with us so looking for somewhere that suits our business (our business thrives on young families) and somewhere that is still enjoyable for people in their young 20’s (we are 23). Although we are looking at 10 cities, our main choices are Raleigh, Austin, and Charlotte. Although this trip will be short, and we will only get to see each city for one day, we will travel back to our final choice(s). We have done so much research (especially on CD!) so we have all the acts about economy, population growth, crime, etc. We are just now going on overall experience.
Here is our review of the RDC area. Unfortunately we did not take photos yet, but will begin to in Charlotte. We hope you find the review helpful and are still looking for some relocation tips as well.
Overall we find The Triangle to be very green and beautiful. We come from CT which green itself too and were surprised by how beautiful it was- we can see why many people are moving here. Although we got cold weather, it was very sunny and we like how much open sky there was. We visited on a Saturday so the traffic was great, and although it was more of a dead day, I can tell the traffic in RDC will be mimimal compared to what we’re used to. We loved how many restaurants there were in the area (chain and independent). The area was very clean and everything seemed new. Although we’ve heard some people say otherwise, we felt even the new developments were visually appealing and went well with the older structures. Everyone was very nice and although we know some N. Carolinians are unhappy with the growth, everyone we spoke to was very welcoming.
Durham:
We visited Durham first as we were interested in more inexpensive urban housing. We really liked the brick look of the town and Bright Leaf square was appealing (although seemed quite expensive and small). We feel very torn about Durham. When we were there it wasn’t very busy (a cold Saturday afternoon) so if anyone has any feedback about this interpretation please let us know. We feel that the town has great potential but just worry about the crime rate. As a 23 year old woman, I felt safe in the area- but the mother the group felt more concerned about low income housing. The 21 year old girls working at the hotel we stayed in in Raleigh said they would never live in durham- too grungy and unsafe. We are taking that with a grain of salt. Any opinions?
Our business is art related so we looked into the Golden Belt. It’s a new live work area for artists. Extremely affordable and gorgeous- but it is about 1.5 miles away from Duke/Downtown Durham and through some more questionable areas. Any experience with this?
We also liked West a lot. Unique lofts for the price. Definitely our style.
We ate lunch at Alivia’s across from Brightleaf and really enjoyed it. Cool place with good prices. Unfortunately we did not see Durham at night so we are curious as to what the night life is like. Where do most people hang out? If we choose the Triangle area, we will definitely check Durham out more. It felt desolate when we were there to an extent, but we do realize it’s up and coming. Do you think this was rare and probably due to the cold? Thank you in advance. We really liked Durham for a lot of reasons.
Cary:
Although we would not consider moving to Cary necessarily, as young professionals, many of our clients would be located there so we wanted to check out the area to get a vibe for it. Although I’ve heard some Cary bashing on here before, we thought it was a beautiful area. The parks and vegetation were great. I’m from Connecticut which is known for charm but I found Cary to be equally charming in it’s own ways. I was shocked by how many developments kept trees between houses. I did not the track housing feeling at all and although I realize there are areas in Cary like that- the overall impression was that it was a beautiful town.
People have complained about strip malls on here, but we liked all of the options for shopping and dining. They were very convenient and nicely designed. The housing choices were many from large subdivisions to more wooded streets with older homes to tons of condos and apartments. Overall we really liked Cary and can see the appeal for a lot of people.
Raleigh:
The downtown was smaller in ways than we expected mostly because so much of it was the business district which was pretty empty (it was a Saturday). We loved Glenwood south, but were hoping for a few more areas like it. Overall we found the city to be easy to drive through, attractive looking, and clean. We didn’t get to explore it too much as it was getting dark but it seemed like a pretty typical nice city. It seemed very safe too in the areas we were in- Glenwood.
Any advice or commentary on downtown Raleigh would be greatly appreciated as we couldn’t check it out as much we liked due to the sun going down. Any apartment suggestions downtown? We are looking at a $1200 budget or so.
I guess we’re curious to know if it’s worth it to live in Downtown Raleigh or if it smarter to live outside of the beltline or in the Cary area. Is living in downtown Raleigh worth it for walking to restaurants, stores, etc? Or are you paying a higher price without the extra conveniences? While we have our heart set on a downtown location, we are willing to possibly compromise and live right outside of downtown if living downtown isn’t too beneficial. Please let me know what you think.
We went to dinner at Hi5 on Glenwood which we loved! Everything on the menu is 5 dollars except for drinks (some less some more). The portions were huge and the atmosphere was great- a sports bar but a more swanky upscale version of one- and not too loud. Our bill came to $29.00 for 3 people (3 meals, 2 drinks).
After we went to Solas which is the closest thing to a club I was told. I was told there are about 2 other clubs in Raleigh just not on Glenwood. While we’re not huge club people, we like to have availability for occasions. How is the club scene? We didn’t see a lot of young people out (it was a very cold Saturday night) but we retired to our hotel room at 10:30 due to driving for 12 hours the night before. Was it just too early?
Overall there seemed to be a great mix of bars and restaurants on Glenwood. We didn’t venture out of Glenwood so any advice on the other areas of downtown Raleigh would be great.
Boylan Heights seemed nice, although not too different from any downtown suburb and we didn’t get to explore it much. We will head back through Raleigh for an hour in 2 weeks on our way back to CT and will check out Locopops for fun.
Chapel Hill:
We spent the morning in Chapel Hill- mostly just getting breakfast. We ate at Ye Olde Waffle Shoppe (I think that’s the name of it) and it was a great inexpensive breakfast place. It’s very loud and cramped but has a great old fashioned feel.
Franklin Street was very nice and had a great feel to it. Very much a college town. We felt although many would consider it charm, and we do to an extent, it looked a bit more run down than the rest of the Triangle area. We do understand that’s part of the feel of it and it retains more of it’s history than some areas.
The UNC campus was beautiful and the people seemed very nice.
Carrboro was a neat area too- we didn’t realize that it’s basically a few blocks from Franklin in Chapel Hill. It was your typical small hippy neighborhood- great for people looking for more “crunchy” towns. While you can probably tell we would not want to locate there, it was great to have it right there with a lot of interesting restaurant and grocery options. We went into Weaver Sreet Market and it was fun to see the different kinds of people and fresh produce.
Overall for us Chapel Hill was probably too small (as we thought it might be) and less appealing for this chapter in our life. We were also surprised it was a whole 30 minutes from Raleigh on our GPS.
Our impressions of the Triangle Area were great. It seemed like a really appealing area to live that is growing but also retaining a lot of charm and beauty. We can see why it is so popular. The one thing that is less enjoyable about it to us is it truly is a triangle- a pretty good distance between the three towns –we probably didn’t completely realize that when doing research. While I think that brings a lot of uniqueness to the area, we’re unsure that Raleigh or Durham or CH has everything we need, and if we rely on the other areas to meet our needs- it would be a lot of traveling between the three to satisfy everything we want. It’s possible that a larger city where things are closer and more compact and everything we want can be found one complete city will be more our style, but overall the Triangle had a lot to offer for us. We realize that no area is perfect- we just need to decide what we’re willing to compromise.
We are heading to Charlotte today, followed by Greenville SC, Atlanta, Austin, Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Nashville for anyone considering similar areas- we’ll be reviewing each on the respective forums. We are expecting Charlotte to be similar in many ways and are looking forward to comparing the two. We think that Charlotte will excel in a few areas but not be as appealing in other ways- we will let you know!
Again, these are brief visits- we are just sharing our experiences. When I was researching cities I relied so much of these first time visit reviews so I thought it would be helpful to post my own. Wish us luck!
This is a great analysis. It's amazing that a newcomer gets it spot on, while people that live here have it so wrong. I am so happy that you found Cary to be so much better and different than the nonsense spouted anonymously. I also share in your thoughts on Chapel Hill & Durham. The answer to your question on Raleigh is, you would most likely be better off in Cary. You can walk to everything in many parts of Cary, so no need to feel like you have to be in downtown Raleigh for that. As you are not a club frequenter, Cary will fill your needs and budget much better than downtown Raleigh.
I look forward to your thoughts and comparisons--I have lived both in the Triangle as well as Atlanta.
Check out Midtown and Little Five Points when you get there. I lived in Va. Highlands, when I was there; I understand it's all condo, now.
Personally, I didn't feel safe enough in Durham, but I was a SWF over 40. No kids, so that wasn't a concern. Raleigh bored me, but you are younger; it may interest you more. The Triangle is probably the best place in NC, along with Charlotte, for a young couple.
Atlanta has a LOT more going on!
You'll enjoy Austin, as well.
I look forward to your posts.
Wow, I'm simply impressed with how much you wrote an how clean cut your thoughts without being particularly negative about any area.
Sometimes we all need a new pair of eyes.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and the comments on my review. It doesn't seem like it was too helpful to people considering Raleigh so far, but perhaps they're more of lurkers! Still good to hear feedback from local residents.
I'm posting Charlotte and Greenville SC now so if you're interested, look at my recent posts. Thanks!
Any advice or commentary on downtown Raleigh would be greatly appreciated as we couldn’t check it out as much we liked due to the sun going down. Any apartment suggestions downtown? We are looking at a $1200 budget or so.
I guess we’re curious to know if it’s worth it to live in Downtown Raleigh or if it smarter to live outside of the beltline or in the Cary area. Is living in downtown Raleigh worth it for walking to restaurants, stores, etc? Or are you paying a higher price without the extra conveniences? While we have our heart set on a downtown location, we are willing to possibly compromise and live right outside of downtown if living downtown isn’t too beneficial. Please let me know what you think.
Hi Watchoverme!
I last replied to your question about the nightlife. Now let me address another question you have.
I live between Miami Beach and the Glenwood South neighborhood in DT Raleigh. I absolutely love living in this neighborhood. While it's not as urban as Miami Beach, it's a really terrific balance of urban life and "first ring" suburban convenience. As you may have already figured out, Glenwood South is the NW corner of downtown Raleigh. While it's adjacent to the center city to its east, its access to some great "old school" suburban development and historic neighborhoods is just to the west and north.
Cameron Village, with its 6 city blocks of shopping is about a half mile west. It has a significant amount of stores and city services including 2 grocery stores, a drug store, a public library, a post office, a host of independent and chain stores and many casual dining establishments. Cameron Village is not a mall but rather a collection of human scaled strip centers that, in collection, create an intimate shopping experience that does a better job of balancing foot traffic and automobiles. FYI, Cameron Village was the first large shopping center between DC and Atlanta and was completed in 1949. Needless to say, it's renovated often to keep it up to date. Here's a link: Welcome to Cameron Village
Two other significant shopping areas are convenient to Glenwood South by car: Crabtree Valley Mall and North Hills. Both are accesible via surface streets and can be reached by back roads without the traffic associated with approaching them by the highways. Both are less than 5 miles away.
Now...for a specific recommendation on a place to look to live. There's a new urban apartment complex opening one block west of Glenwood South at 712 Tucker St. Not surprisingly, the project is unimaginitively named 712 Tucker. Oh well. It's almost finished being constructed according to their website: Raleigh, NC Luxury Condos and Apartments - 712 Tucker I imagine that, with the national housing market in the dumps, they might be within your budget.
In the end, if you choose Raleigh, I think that you'd love this location for its access to nightlife, the adjacent Cameron Park neighborhood, a huge new YMCA, Cameron Village Shopping Center, NC State University, Pullen and Fred Fletcher Parks, Five Points and the Warehouse District.
Cameron Village, with its 6 city blocks of shopping is about a half mile west. It has a significant amount of stores and city services including 2 grocery stores, a drug store, a public library, a post office, a host of independent and chain stores and many casual dining establishments. Cameron Village is not a mall but rather a collection of human scaled strip centers that, in collection, create an intimate shopping experience that does a better job of balancing foot traffic and automobiles. FYI, Cameron Village was the first large shopping center between DC and Atlanta and was completed in 1949. Needless to say, it's renovated often to keep it up to date. Here's a link: Welcome to Cameron Village
We were really disappointed with CV. We have seen so much better in so many areas in the Triangle. JMO.
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