where would you live in working RTP and have young children?

[hi2nc]

Originally Posted by Bull City Rising

Hard to get closer to the Park than Durham. South Durham is close to RTP and Southpoint mall, with affordable housing prices. The 'diversity' of Durham sadly scares off many people, but as RaleighRob said -- take a close look at the numbers and talk to parents about their actual experiences in the schools.

Can you give more specifics on what you mean by "diversity" and how that could be a BIG turnoff for most people?

Coming from Hawaii, the culture, diversity and tolerance of people here is definitely one of the biggest draws of living here. We don't really have "minorities" since many races are well represented .

At first, Durham was really a major consideration for us, because it seemed that the housing ais just as good, and slightly cheaper than parts of Wake County. I've also read that the schools are not as good, but based on what? Now this whole diversity thing...
We're gonna be visiting the area in a month, but staying for a few days probably won't give us a good feel for how the culture and environment is really like. Anyone out there can give an "unbiased, first-hand" experience?

[RaleighRob]

Originally Posted by hi2nc

Can you give more specifics on what you mean by "diversity" and how that could be a BIG turnoff for most people?

Coming from Hawaii, the culture, diversity and tolerance of people here is definitely one of the biggest draws of living here. We don't really have "minorities" since many races are well represented .

At first, Durham was really a major consideration for us, because it seemed that the housing ais just as good, and slightly cheaper than parts of Wake County. I've also read that the schools are not as good, but based on what? Now this whole diversity thing...

I'm pretty sure he's referring to both socioeconomic diversity, as well as racial diversity. Durham's more diverse than most of the Triangle in both regards (for instance, a more even white/black ratio). As for a "turnoff"...yeah, well, you know how some people can be about that.

As for schools, this has been discussed tons here, but the sum of it: yes, Durham County's overall average scores, etc, aren't as high as Wake or Orange...but once you account for differences in race and socioeconomic status (ie, compare like races), you find out it's really even with Wake.

Truthfully, if I left my job in Raleigh for one in RTP, I wouldn't hesitate to move to Durham for a minute...you can get way more for your money as far as homes go, and there's no better commute into RTP, IMHO.

[Bull City Rising]

Originally Posted by hi2nc

Can you give more specifics on what you mean by "diversity" and how that could be a BIG turnoff for most people?

Coming from Hawaii, the culture, diversity and tolerance of people here is definitely one of the biggest draws of living here. We don't really have "minorities" since many races are well represented .

At first, Durham was really a major consideration for us, because it seemed that the housing ais just as good, and slightly cheaper than parts of Wake County. I've also read that the schools are not as good, but based on what? Now this whole diversity thing...
We're gonna be visiting the area in a month, but staying for a few days probably won't give us a good feel for how the culture and environment is really like. Anyone out there can give an "unbiased, first-hand" experience?

I don't think I was clear enough in my previous post. And let me just be clear -- my wife and I love Durham! We moved here from Boston (the city, not the 'burbs) and while we could have chosen to live anywhere in the Triangle, we wanted to live in Durham.

For us, the fact that Durham is diverse is a selling point as to why we wanted to live here. Diversity in Durham has a few meanings to me. First, it means a place that is diverse in views and politics; although a solidly "blue" (Democratic) area, Durham ranges from the conservative, rural northern portions to the more liberal areas around Duke and downtown, the more mainstream/moderate southern part of the city. Heck, we have two Wal-Marts and a member-owned organic food co-op in the same city.

Secondly, it means an economically diverse community. There are million-dollar homes in Durham; there are also, in economically distressed areas, very inexpensive houses and apartments. To me, I want to live in a community that reflects America; just because I could afford to isolate myself in a town that was entirely middle-class or higher (with no affordable housing), doesn't mean I would want to do that.

Thirdly, Durham is an ethnically diverse community. From a purely racial perspective, Durham has black and white residents in equal numbers, with a growing number of persons of Hispanic descent as well. But it goes beyond that: Durham, thanks in part to the presence of Duke and NCCU plus UNC-Chapel Hill nearby, has residents from all around the world and just brings a more 'diverse' sense of self.

To me, this is a wonderful part of the community. To others, it's not as attractive. I think a lot of people on the mainland are used to having "poor" communities and "wealthy" ones, predominately-white communities and predominately-minority. And this isn't just a Southern thing as well; hailing from Mass. (though I was born in Fla.), I can tell you that the suburbs around the 495 belt are nowhere near as 'diverse' as places like Dorchester, or Lowell, or Lynn.

As a result, when crime happens in Durham, people and the media, I feel, jump to conclusions. Crime in Durham , particulalry violent crime, gets played up in both the newspapers/TV but also in the 'water cooler' talk among people who live in Wake/Johnston and don't really have a full picture of Durham. If you look at the statistics, for instance, given Durham's much larger size there are more incidents of crime in Durham than, say, Johnston County -- but on a per-capita basis, your chances of being a victim of violent crime are the same in the two counties. Most crime that happens in Durham, as anywhere, is between persons who know each other, not random victims.

Schools get drawn out because Durham's overall 'test scores' are lower than Wake's. Yet white students in Durham perform as well on standardized tests as whites in Wake, while black students in Durham perform as well on these tests as black students in Wake. It should be noted that in *both* cases, on average black students perform below white students in both counties (due to underlying SES issues, not something intrinsicially racial.) The difference in the aggregate scores is simply that Durham has far more black students per-capita than Wake, so the average scores look lower.

The Independent, a weekly in the area, ran a great article last year on why people have misconceptions about Durham. The article is a great read (particularly for Realtors!) and can be found at http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Con...id=oid%3A31990. There are also some great comments from Durhamites in the article. Here's one comment from the Independent article that sums things up for me:

"What I love most about Durham is its diversity. Sitting on my steps some days I can hear Latino music playing in the background, while smelling soul food coming from next door. I see an elderly Pakistani woman walking down the street and admiring the gardens in the neighborhood. I see small kids of all colors running up and down the street and in my yard, laughing and playing basketball. I see gay and lesbian couples walking their dogs and racially mixed heterosexual couples enjoying the same outing. I find these old neighborhoods in Durham fascinating by how they are transitioning from the old stereotypical American homes and neighborhoods to more diverse homes and neighborhoods that outwardly show different cultures. To me Durham is a great example of what America truly is...." --Donald Bradsher

More comments like this can be found at http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Con...id=oid%3A31991.

[hi2nc]

Thanks for the candid and in-depth response. Much appreciated. The feedback I've gotten from this thread has been very helpful.

Truly understand how people can be when it comes to racial issues.
We, my wife and I...and obviously the children, are Asian. Filipino actually, so we're definitely gonna be a minority pretty much anywhere we go on the mainland. Probably not many brown-skinned people around, since most of the time racial issues become a black and white thing. But for me, having a good mix of different races is a good thing. When I was in Phoenix for college some 15 years ago, people didn't know what to make of me, so they just figured I was Mexican. People would refer to me as "Pedro" or "Jose", and start talking to me in "broken" Spanish. I hated that.

We figured that relocating to a high-tech, metro area would be a much better move since these areas would likely be more diverse, and residents are exposed to all kinds of different races. We don't necessarily want to stick out like a sore thumb. Children don't need to be around "ignorant" people. They should be able to enjoy themselves as kids, and grow up in a safe and nurturing environment.

And what's up w/ the restaurants there? I looked a the listings they have online, and saw only a handful of Asian stores/restaurants in the area, and 1 Filipino restaurant. Let me know if I'm missing anything...