Impressions after my first visit to Raleigh/Duraham. (Charlotte, Durham: cul-de-sac, credit card)

[fnord]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

and one more thing:
Yes- I met my Wife on craigslist and we've been married happily for 4 years. Thanks for asking.

So did I, also now married for 4 years. How is that any different than meeting someone at a bar or anywhere else?

Good thread, all.

[rf22777]

sliverbox:

Respectfully, and just to close this part of your thread, I am aware of the historical returns of various asset classes. But this in one of those areas where I am not sure that theoretical accuracy translates in to real world applicability. As an example, unless someone is the toddler from the Etrade commercials they probably did not buy a stock young enough to hold it for 100 years. Most investors at least occassionally buy stocks at the wrong time and sell them at the wrong time, for a variety of reasons. This occurrence tends to reduce the historical returns of the asset class for individual investors. What if you bought stocks in the late nineties thinking you were going to hold the investment for 10 years, held on through the tech stock bubble in 2000 but lost your job in 2008 and had to sell stocks to pay for health insurance, your mortgage or something completely unexpected. How much did the historical returns of the asset class help you? An extreme example maybe, but so is the reality of most people holding stocks through thick and thin for their entire lives.

I am not arguing the accuracy of the data although I think the sell off in stocks in 08 brought the historical annualized return of stocks down by a point or so. But I also referenced risk adjusted returns. Most people who buy a house commit to owning a house, maybe not the same house but a house, for longer periods of time than they commit to owning a stock. But I would never suggest buying a house simply for investment purposes either. You buy a house to live in. And you can't live in your stock certificates.

While acknowledging the economic simplicity of my thinking and the financial miscalculation I might (or might not) be making, not having to worry about making a mortgage or rent payment is a very comforting thought to me. So for that asset class, and the fact that I can live in a house, I will happily take that 4% appreciation. And once the mortgage is paid off, there is more money left over to invest in other asset classes, potentially more aggressively because my house has been financially secured. So if I were to include the potential returns from all asset classes that I could own over time, perhaps my portfolio would not financially underperform as much as you might think.

Financial minds far more sophisticated than me debate this topic on a regular basis. And there is not necessarily an absolute answer. But financial security can be obtained in a variety of ways and what works for me works for me. And paying off my mortgage or not having one will remain a priority for me.

[kingyouth]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

My last comment about this. Basically, I've said all I care to say about the topic. Its ok if some of you disagree. Anyhow, good luck to each and everyone of you in whatever choice you make. topic closed.

It always surprises me, that in any forum on any site, that once the OP gets too much disdain or questions from other posters, that he/she finds it necessary to close the topic.

Isn't the point of having forums like this is to gain perspective from other people? I certainly don't agree with everyone on here, but that is the point. We all have different walks of life and therefore we have different perspectives. But to suggest that a thread or topic be closed because other people have become too vocal about a thread that person has created is immature and arrogant.

You started this thread. Were you expecting everyone to agree with you? That is a touch naive. If you truly believed in what you have said, I would think you would be screaming from the rooftops and not backing down. You would stand up for your opinion. You would not be dismissive. You would welcome a discussion.

You would act like an adult.

[joey2000]

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Ive already found multiple houses under 120k at the far east, west, and southeast ends of Raleigh, mostly in newer vinyl villages. All were atleast 1500 sqft 3 beds or more and 2 baths or more, and were in very good condition.

Really? So you personally checked them out?

If you move to the 150-175k range, you can find tremendously nice houses with garden tubs, large yards, stainless steel appliances, etc. You cant find anything outside of a townhouse in the gutter here for that, not even as far out as Suffolk.

Yeah you can but I agree they are more common here. I also agree that they are nowhere near a beach or the other amenities that such houses in VA are near. Trade-offs and all that.

No, salaries there are not less then here, at all. According to salary.com, on average, jobs in Raleigh pay 3.6% more then jobs in Virginia Beach, VA, and 3.7 more then Norfolk. For accounting, which Im particuliarly keen on, and have my own personal research for, jobs with my experience and education typically start around 15% higher then what Im making now, up to about 30% higher then Im making now.

I've researched salary.com for accounting. I call BS. But hey if you can find such a job, more power to you.

[joey2000]

Originally Posted by twingles

Why is everyone feeding this troll?

How about because he has made/explained valid (or at least reasonable) points and has explained himself thoroughly (more than once in some cases)?

I frankly don't care what he has said elsewhere. Try actually reading and discussing his posts vs this teeny bopper personal attack "he sucks" kiddie BS. It's not like he came on here and went "RALEIGH SUCKS" and moved on.

Originally Posted by kingyouth

You started this thread. Were you expecting everyone to agree with you? That is a touch naive. If you truly believed in what you have said, I would think you would be screaming from the rooftops and not backing down. You would stand up for your opinion. You would not be dismissive. You would welcome a discussion.

You would act like an adult.

Dear Pot: he did, and he has. Another person who apparently didn't even bother to read through the thread.

And frankly it's more than I can say for some of the others on this forum. He clearly did not expect everyone to agree with him but I think (finally) got tired of (re-) explaining himself to a handful of yahoos who appear either unable or unwilling to have a rational discussion. Frankly I'm impressed he stuck it out this long.

[joey2000]

Originally Posted by sliverbox

I realize I'm being an ass and own up to it fully. That's just the wawy I feel.

If so you aren't exactly leading the pack, frankly. You're just being honest about your impressions and not turning this into some personal attack hissy BS like I knew a few here would (although I am glad to say they are in the minority). Stop apologizing.

Originally Posted by I'minformed2

"up north"...meaning Long Island, New Jersey and Boston.
Cost of living is now higher in Raleigh-Durham than in many areas of the interior Northeast (Upstate NY, Pennsylvania, interior New England). Mostly because people from the BosWash corridor, S. Florida, and California are so intrigued by the cheapness and have thus driven up the cost of living. The OP makes some harsh generalizations in his posts but he does have a valid point in that sentiment. People moving from expensive crowded areas thinking they are escaping those conditions are really just bringing it along with them.

Exactly, well said. Not that I damn them for doing so, just wish more would do it somewhere else because they are re-creating the very problems they sought to avoid, even if unintentionally. Just a shame.

Originally Posted by anotherNYer

Every time you read a post about people relocating here it is the same mantra- don't come without a job, don't come expecting this or that, etc. sometimes it sounds like sour grapes or anger at people relocating.

?? I'd say it sounds like great advice. Moving to another state without a job is pretty foolish, as NC is no more a job mecca than it is a housing mecca.

Originally Posted by Randomdude

Any place you find in Upstate NY, Pennsylvania or New England that is cheaper then Raleigh, has absolutely no jobs whatsoever. My uncle lives in a small backwoods town in upstate New York. Sure, houses can be had for 25k, but the biggest source of income in the town is TANF.
You can also live in places like Buffalo, or Syracuse, which have colossal unemployment rates, and decaying inner cities and huge crime rates, but they have cheap houses!
The point is, they arent cheaper because they are diamonds in the rough like Raleigh once was, they are cheaper because nobody wants to live there.

Unemployment rates - Unemployment rates by state from CNNMoney

NC is the 7th worst state in the nation for unemployment. PA and NY well down the list. Granted, this is the overall state vs specific areas, but seems to me the perception of many re. unemployment is quite skewed.

Originally Posted by LisaMc46

What concerns us is the incredible rate of ill-planned development. There seems to be no limit to the number of strip malls and housing developments that developers can build. Not enough schools? No problem. The county will create year-round schools to fit your kids in. Not enough water? No problem. We'll build even more houses as we wait for the drought to end. Not enough highway infrastructure to support the rate of growth? No problem. We'll build now and figure it out later.
My relatives live in lovely subdivisions in Cary and Fuguay Varina. But it seems that every time we visit another swath of forest has been clear cut or another horse farm has been sold and is now being touted as the future site of an upscale subdivision.
It's just a matter of time before taxes escalate to support the infrastructure, schools, municipal services needed for the masses of newcomers. Add to that the traffic, loss of green space, endless strip malls and billboards and the only way you'll know you're not in N.J. anymore will be the barbecue joints and Chick-Fil-A restaurants.
When I try to bring these issues up with my Triangle relatives they become defensive.

Well said on all counts, unfortunately. The NC/Triangle gov't planning is a joke.

[rnc2mbfl]

Let's face it. Does Raleigh really need for EVERYONE to want to move to it? Frankly, I don't want anyone in town that doesn't want to be here. There's enough bad chi in the world to only add to it.

[justNancy]

Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl

My parents raised 4 kids in 1600 s.f. 25 years later. Now, 1600 s.f. is seen by more and more people as a starter home.

Originally Posted by lovebrentwood

Yeah, I can imagine. I was raised in a home with six kids, two parents, one dog, one cat. And one bathroom. It was the same house my father was raised in, a standard Victorian-era home.

We all survived.

I just came across this thread and am happy to see some positive posts about Raleigh (if I ever decide to move there!)

When I first began house hunting, I'd shy away from a listing for a home any smaller than 1,500 s.f. although I'm on a very tight budget. One day I discovered Zillow and, just for fun, typed the address of the house I grew up in, a small cape cod style home is MA. My Dad bought it in 1957 when I was 6. I remember how excited I was to leave the apartment project where we lived in the city and move to a real house since the 5 of us were cramped in 3 rooms.

Anyway, believe it or not, there it was in front of me. (I'm such a kid when it comes to the internet!) I was looking at the map and getting all nostalgic when I noticed it's only 1,260 s.f. How soon we forget! So now if I see a listing for a 1,000 s.f. home in an area I like, I'll probably take a look at it since there's only one of me.

[Charlton Dude]

Originally Posted by Charlton Dude

sliverbox, I have just one question I would be interested in hearing the answer to. You have every right to not like transplants and having people relocate to places. But while you are condemning it, you are looking to do the same thing. How can you condemn the idea of transplants, yet think it is okay for "you" to be a transplant. Wouldn't you then become part of the problem you "think" exists?

Originally Posted by sliverbox

My last comment about this. Basically, I've said all I care to say about the topic. Its ok if some of you disagree. Anyhow, good luck to each and everyone of you in whatever choice you make. topic closed.

Me thinks I stumped the OP, as he has been unable to answer the obvious question I asked and has chosen to stop posting in this thread. Maybe it is just taking a lot of time to figure out an answer that will cover both sides of the debate.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by joey2000

Unemployment rates - Unemployment rates by state from CNNMoney

FYI, a list broken down by metro region is available at Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas.