I Am Totally Lost! RTP, Raleigh, Durham, WHAT?! (Cary, Chapel Hill: housing, rent)

[Lorax]

In possibly a year I could be moving to the Raleigh-Durham area, as my boyfriend will be looking for a job in the biostats field. From the majority of jobs we've seen posted online, it looks like he'll be working in the RTP. I have no clue where I'll be working.

We're coming up there this summer to try to get a feel for the area, but I have to tell you: I'm lost. We think we want to live in either Raleigh or Durham (we like the idea of a big city, but don't want to live in an apartment or townhome), but don't know what to make of the two.

Here are some of the stereotypes I've heard. Can someone help me make some sense out of it all? Thank you in advance!

Raleigh:
White collar, white-bread town.
Little diversity, lots of malls, soccer moms (blech)
Less traffic
Farther away from RTP, could be a long drive to and from work (but what's bad traffic? Right now I drive over an hour to work and back just to go 35 miles)
Safer
More expensive housing, but nicer housing
Better for those just out of college, younger folks looking for good bars, restaurants, etc.

Durham:
Ghetto
If you want to live in an affordable house, you'll get shot in that area
Cheap housing, but dangerous areas are everywhere
Traffic not so bad
If you work in RTP you should live here
Nothing to do
Old city, run-down
Not many bars, restaurants, shopping areas
Traffic can be bad in the city, but not too bad to get to RTP and back

I'm not trying to talk crap about anyone's town; these are simply things other people have told me about these two towns, and I realize that some of them conflict.

Thanks again for the help!

P.S. That poll should read: "Which town is better for 20-somethings looking for safe yet thriving living area with less traffic to/from RTP?

[Desdemona123]

Originally Posted by Lorax

In possibly a year I could be moving to the Raleigh-Durham area, as my boyfriend will be looking for a job in the biostats field. From the majority of jobs we've seen posted online, it looks like he'll be working in the RTP. I have no clue where I'll be working.

We're coming up there this summer to try to get a feel for the area, but I have to tell you: I'm lost. We think we want to live in either Raleigh or Durham (we like the idea of a big city, but don't want to live in an apartment or townhome), but don't know what to make of the two.

Here are some of the stereotypes I've heard. Can someone help me make some sense out of it all? Thank you in advance!

Raleigh:
White collar, white-bread town.
Little diversity, lots of malls, soccer moms (blech)
Less traffic
Farther away from RTP, could be a long drive to and from work (but what's bad traffic? Right now I drive over an hour to work and back just to go 35 miles)
Safer
More expensive housing, but nicer housing
Better for those just out of college, younger folks looking for good bars, restaurants, etc.

Durham:
Ghetto
If you want to live in an affordable house, you'll get shot in that area
Cheap housing, but dangerous areas are everywhere
Traffic not so bad
If you work in RTP you should live here
Nothing to do
Old city, run-down
Not many bars, restaurants, shopping areas
Traffic can be bad in the city, but not too bad to get to RTP and back

I'm not trying to talk crap about anyone's town; these are simply things other people have told me about these two towns, and I realize that some of them conflict.

Thanks again for the help!

Dear me...both of those descriptions are not even close to being the full picture for either Raleigh or Durham.

You make Raleigh sound like Step-fordville and Durham sounds like....well...gods, I don't even know what. I am not always the biggest fan about all of Durham, but even I don't think it's as bad at that sounded!

[morrisville2007]

I think your best bet is to visit, spend some time in the area, and come up with your own opinions. The stereotypes you have shared do not seem to paint a very accurate picture of the area and what it has to offer!

[scorp200]

I vote for West/Southwest Durham. I'm visiting here now and though I'm older than you I want the same kind of area - 9th street in Durham is definitely interesting as is the entire Duke area, it seems. I'll be working in RTP as well and I think it's only going to be a 20 min. drive or so.

[Bull City Rising]

Originally Posted by Lorax

Durham:
Ghetto
If you want to live in an affordable house, you'll get shot in that area
Cheap housing, but dangerous areas are everywhere
Traffic not so bad
If you work in RTP you should live here
Nothing to do
Old city, run-down
Not many bars, restaurants, shopping areas
Traffic can be bad in the city, but not too bad to get to RTP and back

I can speak to the Durham piece of this. To be honest: What you've described here is a stereotype I hear from people who haven't spent much if any time in Durham. And I would say it's not a fair assessment. Where to start:

Affordable housing: There is plenty of very affordable housing (in the $100s) in perfectly safe area. This includes much of north Durham (middle-class/retirees/some working class between Roxboro and Guess; professional and middle class west of Guess; affordable and lots of younger families north of Horton), as well as much of southern Durham, though in parts of S. Durham you get into the $2-300k's and up, up very quickly. There are also some older, historic neighborhoods like Duke Park, Northgate Park, Old West Durham that are affordable and have very active neighborhood assns. with great neighbors.

The *really cheap* (under $100k) housing does tend to be in areas that are crime plagued. The city and private/nonprofit developers are working to revitalize these areas, but eastern Durham (between downtown and US 70) and some of the areas east of Roxboro/south of the Durham Frwy are more notorious in this way.

If you can get up into the $2-3k range, there are tons of awesome housing choices all over Durham.


Restaurants, bars, shopping: Strongly disagree. In fact, on a per-capita basis, Durham is *stronger* than anywhere else in the Triangle on this. Bars like the Federal, James Joyce, Satisfaction's, Tyler's are always busy; restaurants include one of the top-ranked gourmet restaurants in the US (Magnolia Grill), and tons of other great choices (Pops, Anotherthyme, Rue Cler, Four Square, Nana's, Vin Rouge, Parizades, Chumas... the list literally goes on and on.) Brightleaf, American Tobacco and 9th Street are very lively places, though less of a nightclub scene than a dining al fresco or meeting a friend at the bar one. 9th St. (near Duke) is full of more eclectic options, like coffeeshops, Latin American cuisine, the famous Elmo's Diner, etc.

Shopping includes Streets at Southpoint, which has Macy's, Nordstrom, Sears, Belk, Penney's, plus Cheesecake Factory, Maggiano's, etc. (all the "chains.") Plus all the "big-box" stores like Best Buy, Target, etc. ... along with lots of cool, local businesses.

Old city, run-down: It is an old city by southern standards; though it dates just to the post-Civil War period, lots of old architecture has been preserved. Run down? Maybe ten years ago... but there's about a half-billion in private investment going into downtown and surrounding areas. American Tobacco features the Durham Bulls ballpark, corporate HQ for several high-tech companies and a major ad agency, and admin offices for GlaxoSmithKline, Duke, several investment banks, etc. West Village is another old tobacco complex being renovated. The old Hill/CCB/Suntrust tower downtown is becoming a boutique hotel/spa by 2009.

Last weekend, total ticket sales for the Full Frame film festival -- America's largest documentary filmfest, held downtown and known as the 'Sundance' of documentaries, topped 26,000.

...

To be honest, the only way to know whether Durham (or Raleigh, or Cary, or...) is for you is to visit and take a look. I would urge you *not* to be turned away by stereotypes, though. We're a proud city, and a very diverse city. Don't expect this to be Reston, Va., or Newton, Mass., or East Hampton. We're socio-economically and racially diverse and a fairly politically liberal (and active) place. But it's a great city to live in.

Incidentally, if the kind of shopping/dining/urban life I described above is what you're looking for, also check out inside-the-beltline Raleigh and Carrboro, and possibly Chapel Hill.

[ejmatl]

I'm sorry, Lorax, but as a new resident of the area, I take huge offense to your stereotypes. Of *course* there are "soccer moms" in the Raleigh area - but there are "soccer moms" everywhere. Of course there are "white bread" areas of Raleigh, but there are a lot of very diverse places as well (Cameron Park, Oakwood, Mordecai, etc.). Of course there are places where you can pay mondo amounts of rent and run the risk of getting shot outside of your place, but there are far more places that exude the essence of the true, genteel South.

If you're going to visit here in the hope of finding a home, you need to stop relying on stereotypes, peruse this board at lenght, ask questions, explore and make your own decisions. And, you need to be objective. What's "crime" to some is nothing more than a nuisance to others. And what's "white bread" to some is nothing more than uneducated judgement.

eileen

[Lorax]

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with these stereotypes, but again: I did not come up with them, they are all phrases that I have heard from other people.

I did not mean to sound like I was knocking Durham, either. I am originally from Chicago and would appreciate a more diverse culture, as I am aware of the great benefits that go along with it. However, I do not wish to trade my safety for this. Meaning, I don't want to live in a high-crime area. But it sounds like there are several areas of Durham where I could live that are not high crime.

It also sounds like perhaps the traffic coming from Raleigh to RTP would be much more than going from Durham to RTP. Does this sound correct to you local folks?

I know I need to go and check it out for myself, but a couple of weekend trips to an area as tourists are not really going to give me the whole picture. Which is why I am so appreciative of the help from this forum.

So thanks again for any comments... please continue to send them my way!

p.s. Eileen---I <I>am</I> asking questions. And I have been perusing the board, and you've got to admit... it's full of stereotypes. That's why I posted a thread specific to my own situation. I'm definitely uneducated as to the situation in the area right now, and am at the mercy of the locals to educate me. I appreciate your comments and am sorry if I offended you. I was simply repeating what information I had gathered from various posts in this forum and from others I have talked with some sort of experience in the area.

[rock23]

Some of the sterotypes might be a little over the top but there is some truth to them as well especially the sterotype of Durham. The only place I would ever consider moving in Durham would be eithor the Southpoint area or the part of Durham near the Raleigh border around Brier creek area. Durham is very spotty in terms of ghetto vs nice areas so I would only consider the areas I just described which are nice and growing areas of Durham.

[Bull City Rising]

Originally Posted by rock23

Some of the sterotypes might be a little over the top but there is some truth to them as well especially the sterotype of Durham. The only place I would ever consider moving in Durham would be eithor the Southpoint area or the part of Durham near the Raleigh border around Brier creek area. Durham is very spotty in terms of ghetto vs nice areas so I would only consider the areas I just described which are nice and growing areas of Durham.

Which would, of course, miss areas with million-dollar homes (like Treyburn and Croasdaile in north Durham), or $500k-$1m homes, like Hope Valley, parts of Trinity Park, parts of Forest Hills. I don't think you have much in the way of 'crime' going on in those areas.

I think the Brier Creek and Southpoint areas well enough, for what they are (new construction, suburban.) But as someone who resides in Durham *outside* those two areas, I can tell you the stereotype is *not* true about all of the rest of Durham. And I think it's a shame when people don't even consider such areas because of third-hand information.

[scorp200]

Originally Posted by Lorax

It also sounds like perhaps the traffic coming from Raleigh to RTP would be much more than going from Durham to RTP. Does this sound correct to you local folks?

That's what my new boss told me. He commutes to RTP from Chapel Hill and said it's much lighter in that direction - that a lot of RTP people are moving to Cary.