They better start building some mass transit in the Triangle.
Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, CaryThe Triangle Area
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Right, I agree that our population is going to continuously grow and we will have a definite need for mass transit. However, what I am saying is that if our city/community planning does not change then anything that we implement now will be worthless because of our failures to properly allocate and design the cities. A great rail system is nullified by the excessive sprawl and poor planning. If we can get more efficient with design and planning then the mass transit becomes more and more useful (not to mention easier to implement). So basically we are saying don't throw money at a problem until you've addressed both underlying causes, population and city planning/development.
I agree with you. Obviously the funds weren't available and it seems the various factions are redesigning and honing the plan.
Much better to spend time on a plan than to have the money with a weak plan.
By the way, I started looking around on the site that poster linked about Charlotte, and Houston, of all places, has Light rail, only about 8 miles of it and they're up to 40,000 fares a day.
In Houston!
I hope Charlotte isn't a victim of poor planning. That can happen for highways and airports too, all publicly subsidized, all subject to corruption, incompetence etc.
So we agree. My only other point is, no matter how you plan, the city will grow up around the transportation to an extent and that just takes time.
I've posted here about it before. They lost their big fed funding because the current administration is not friendly to mass transit and changed the threshold, I believe.
Actually, they lost the funding because they didn't have a viable plan to go forward. I think Bush is the cause of many problems but not this one. The Triangle Transit Authority had the federal funding for a few years and they didn't use it, so they lost it. It went to another project somewhere else.
Mass transit doesn't make sense in most American cities
Mass transit makes A LOT of sense is places like Portland and SF. Oakland just had that huge over pass collapse. If this happens in Raleigh your only choice it to find another route to travel via car, which means your 45 min commute is now over 2 hours. In SF BART is an option.
In Portland in the 80s they saw the need for light rail, while Seattle opted to stick to it's old system of busses. Seattle has a good mass trans but Portland has a world class mass trans because people had the fore sight to see it's need 20 years ahead of time. Currently Portland has buses, Streetcars, Lightrail, and an Aerial Tram... all of which are vital to the sucess and liveability of this city.
Recently the N&O compared Raleigh to LA, and most of us laughed. Well, as many people pointed out then, Raleigh will become the next LA IF something futuristic is not done about transportation. SO MUCH innovation and technology comes from The Triangle. It's time The Triangle steps up and applies this innovative way of thinking to the way the travel and live.
BTW, after our move this summer I hope I'll see some of you at the next rail planning public meeting.
I have so many soap boxes that I have a whole separate moving truck for them.
Actually, they lost the funding because they didn't have a viable plan to go forward. I think Bush is the cause of many problems but not this one. The Triangle Transit Authority had the federal funding for a few years and they didn't use it, so they lost it. It went to another project somewhere else.
I will agree and disagree. They did buy the land and are apparently working on and sharpening the plan. This is all to the good as I agree giving money to any government run projects that are lacking in planning is folly.
On the other hand, I believe i read they changed the criteria for qualifying and the plan wasn't optimum.
I'm being very general in that last statement, so if somebody knows of the change in federal policy, please let me know.
Nothing wrong with holding local govts. feet to the fire as far as planning goes.
This is a sad tale:
http://www.newsobserver.com/187/story/380713.html (broken link)
Poor guy! The TTA's planning has had at least one casualty.
It seems the gov. said that TTA had to submit stats for riders that were already there, not riders that might be there. Tougher standards for cost-effectiveness are a good thing-- I think that the area should have light rail, but it can't turn into a billion-dollar blunder.
"The Federal Transit Administration had given high marks to TTA as it developed its plans over the past decade. But starting in 2004, the federal agency began raising alarms about soaring costs, weak local funding and shaky ridership forecasts.
None of these problems was solved over the next two years.
TTA cut four rail stations and seven miles of tracks from its plans. Costs fell but quickly rose again. The federal agency ordered an overhaul of a computer model used to predict Triangle traffic congestion and transit demand. A new report predicted only 10,200 daily train riders by 2030, half the number in earlier projections."
This is a sad tale:
http://www.newsobserver.com/187/story/380713.html (broken link)
Poor guy! The TTA's planning has had at least one casualty.
It seems the gov. said that TTA had to submit stats for riders that were already there, not riders that might be there. Tougher standards for cost-effectiveness are a good thing-- I think that the area should have light rail, but it can't turn into a billion-dollar blunder.
"The Federal Transit Administration had given high marks to TTA as it developed its plans over the past decade. But starting in 2004, the federal agency began raising alarms about soaring costs, weak local funding and shaky ridership forecasts.
None of these problems was solved over the next two years.
TTA cut four rail stations and seven miles of tracks from its plans. Costs fell but quickly rose again. The federal agency ordered an overhaul of a computer model used to predict Triangle traffic congestion and transit demand. A new report predicted only 10,200 daily train riders by 2030, half the number in earlier projections."
Maybe the triangle area is lucky they changed the rules. A more focused plan is better for everyone.
From your second article:
Lucky timing helped Charlotte when it won final approval in May 2005 for the South Corridor. It would have flunked toughened federal standards for cost-effectiveness that took effect a week later.
Quote:
The new standards helped sink TTA's plans. And they eventually could threaten some of Charlotte's long-term proposals to serve areas that might not have enough riders to justify the cost.
How does a new report come up with numbers half of the old reports? Has the population gone down?
Quote:
A new report predicted only 10,200 daily train riders by 2030, half the number in earlier projections."
I've heard that monorails are affordable way to build in already built up areas, but that the are opposed by governments for political reasons.
What? Who doesn't like monorails?
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
but not this one. The Triangle Transit Authority had the federal funding for a few years and they didn't use it, so they lost it. It went to another project somewhere else.
