Tolls on 540 (Raleigh, Dallas: maintenance, travel, work)

[NC man]

A toll in NC is hard to swallow, and ya once they slide it in you will see it spread to other roads, and while I understand some of the transplants comments, not growing up in this state thinking there is no growth problem but alot of us see tolls as a negative factor of growth,and watch some one try to make our beaches private next, they tried that three years ago and got sent back up north with those beach tags. I still believe its the newcomers that should bare most the tax for the growth they cause. IMPACT FEES on new development. It wont solve the problem but will make a difference. Ask yourselves who is fighting againt the fees and it all becomes clear.

[MrsSteel]

Originally Posted by jbognar

Really? $1 or $2 seems high? The highway is going to be about 20 miles, and with gas approaching $4 and typical gas mileage around 20MPG, you would end up spending $4 just in gasoline over this distance. And that's the price of gas in 2007.....who knows what the price of gas in 2011 is going to be!

Well, it seems high to me, but I am not as wealthy as the average person living in Cary is thought to be (Of course, I don't live in Cary, either, but I'm still concerned about this issue). My point is that people are very sensitive about the cost of their commute because gas prices are so high. And an extra $4 a day to go to work sounds like it would discourage people from using the road. If the charge was set at $2 each way, that would add up to more than $1000 a year for the average worker. How do you convince the average person to spend that extra 1K a year?

I am speaking from experience here, too. My old hometown opened a toll road within city limits about 5 years ago and it hasn't been nearly as helpful for congestion as people had hoped. Most people balk at the idea of spending the extra money on a toll. So the toll road stays pretty empty most of the time while the other roads remain congested.

[OmegaBaby]

Originally Posted by MrsSteel

Well, it seems high to me, but I am not as wealthy as the average person living in Cary is thought to be (Of course, I don't live in Cary, either, but I'm still concerned about this issue). My point is that people are very sensitive about the cost of their commute because gas prices are so high. And an extra $4 a day to go to work sounds like it would discourage people from using the road. If the charge was set at $2 each way, that would add up to more than $1000 a year for the average worker. How do you convince the average person to spend that extra 1K a year?

Simple...you educate them. People assume that avoiding the tolls will save them $1 or $2, but they fail to consider how much they're spending by taking the alternate route.

The toll commission needs to figure out and show the cost difference between...
1) The cost of the gasoline for driving 20 miles on the highway with a $1 or $2 toll added.
2) The cost of the gasoline for driving 20 miles on side roads in constant stop-and-go traffic (i.e. the type of traffic where fuel economy is the worst, and you're gas is wasted while idling at traffic lights and in long lines of cars).

Depending on the fuel economy that your car gets and the price of gasoline, it may turn out to be cheaper to take the toll road. And even if it isn't cheaper, the reduced actual cost of the toll road (which might be $.25-$.50) would be worth it to many people for them to get home 20 minutes earlier.

And then there is the time involved. If the toll road saves you 20 minutes travel time each way (a reasonably conservative estimate if you're traveling from Holly Springs to RTP), that adds up to around 175 hours in a year. How much would you spend to avoid 7.2 days worth of driving?

[MrsSteel]

Well JBognar, I truly hope you are right. I honestly do. I just know that these tactics have not worked yet for most of the population in my home state. Here's hoping that the residents of Wake County are more willing to do the math & find the option that really makes the most sense for them.

[notollson540]

Originally Posted by bta

notollson540 - I said this in my first post to this thread. I think what your message is missing is a clear statement of the alternative approach to tolls. You talk about misuse of money but you don't give a different solution to the toll problem. This is clearly a deficiency with the site you set up, http://www.notollson540.org. The message of "No Tolls on 540" is clear - but it begs 2 questions: 1) why no tolls? 2) what's the alternative?

Although the home page itself may seem lacking a bit, all the information you seek about why not and some alternative thoughts are included on the site and in the forums, please take a few moments to read if you like. I will not disagree that the website is as user friendly as it should be.

There are many alternatives to tolling. But let me start by saying I'm an ordinary citizen like you. I don't have an engineering degree nor do I know what it truly takes to make a transportation project work. But there are alternatives and I've stated only a couple over and over again, including asking why the NCTA isn't even looking at them. The NCTA has been charged to build certain roads whether we like it or not, sadly NOT to look into where tolling might truly be beneficial in NC. Look for info about tolling 95 and 77, maybe even 85 at the borders with VA and SC. With those roads paid for and improved using tolls, the NCDOT could re-allocate funds to other projects, such as 540. Also note, as you noticed, funds have been mishandled. Want a cure for that? Vote in a completely new GA, don't allow anyone currently sitting in stay. voting speaks volumes, when the time comes, please use yours.

[notollson540]

Originally Posted by jbognar

Really? $1 or $2 seems high? The highway is going to be about 20 miles, and with gas approaching $4 and typical gas mileage around 20MPG, you would end up spending $4 just in gasoline over this distance. And that's the price of gas in 2007.....who knows what the price of gas in 2011 is going to be!

The NCTA has refused to make a statement on what the toll will actually be. To appease local Mayors, they have been tossing around an estimated $2 each way. This means $4/day, $20/week, $1040/year. Makes you think a bit about it now does it. That's one heck of a budget item for many families. "So much for that trip to the beach this summer honey, I took the toll road to work." yes, there will be alternate roads *sigh* so no need to argue that point. The point to be made here is that CAMPO has passed this allowing tolling to go forward, now the NCGA will have to come up with the GAP funding... yet, this is just one of MANY questions the NCTA DOES NOT HAVE AN ANSWER FOR. I was extremely disappointed CAMPO passed this through with the lack of detail provided by the NCTA.

[notollson540]

Originally Posted by jbognar

Simple...you educate them. People assume that avoiding the tolls will save them $1 or $2, but they fail to consider how much they're spending by taking the alternate route.

2) The cost of the gasoline for driving 20 miles on side roads in constant stop-and-go traffic (i.e. the type of traffic where fuel economy is the worst, and you're gas is wasted while idling at traffic lights and in long lines of cars).

I drive a hybrid and encourage others to look into that or bicycle commuting. By driving a hybrid, stop and go works to my benefit! If I'm under 40mph, my gas motor is not always required. Sitting stopped it doesn't run at all. Do some hybrid research, you'll be glad you did.

[cooperwx]

Originally Posted by notollson540

Look for info about tolling 95 and 77, maybe even 85 at the borders with VA and SC. With those roads paid for and improved using tolls, the NCDOT could re-allocate funds to other projects, such as 540.

I'm confused. Are you saying to put tolls on these other interstates instead of 540? Was one of your earlier arguments against the toll on 540 that the toll plaza would be on a part of 540 not paid for with toll money?

[Njrover0216]

As long as they position the tolls properly and doesn't cause a back up, I think it is a good idea to have the people that use it pay for it and not the entire county.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by Njrover0216

As long as they position the tolls properly and doesn't cause a back up, I think it is a good idea to have the people that use it pay for it and not the entire county.

I'm not disagreeing with you NJrover, but I have never seen a toll that hasn't caused a back up with traffic, EZ Pass or not, it still disrupts the flow of traffic. That is part of the reason why I will be grilling out in my backyard here in Raleigh this Memorial Day Weekend instead of making a trip up to the Jersey Shore to see some friends and family. Those Tolls on I-95 back up terribly during the Holidays, and I use EZ pass and know what lane I need to be in .... still the back ups continue.