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Old 01-12-2010, 09:56 AM
 
29,462 posts, read 33,705,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emitchell View Post
And what is the complaint in the Northeast? "The damn unions are killing us and the teachers are grossly over-paid for their nine-month jobs and the union-negotiated pensions are milking us dry."

You can't have it both ways.
That is if you are discussing compensation. However I believe the issue at hand is student performance and you need go no further than drop out rate comparisons to be appalled by the non top suburban numbers Wake puts up. So with that increased costs may come a performance benefit unless you attribute the weaker Wake numbers to less able suburban students.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:57 AM
 
29,462 posts, read 33,705,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emitchell View Post
And what is the complaint in the Northeast? "The damn unions are killing us and the teachers are grossly over-paid for their nine-month jobs and the union-negotiated pensions are milking us dry."

You can't have it both ways.
Not the same people complaining so it can be both ways with some in favor of the increased costs and others against. Did Capt Chill write he wanted it both ways or are you comparing his thoughts with others. It is a debate with people on each side wanting it their way and not both ways, so if you are willing to pay for quality perhaps Wake is not your destination. There is another possibility, perhaps the money is there but citizens aren't getting full value for it.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Wake Forest NC
1,611 posts, read 4,313,009 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I'minformed2 View Post
...If that is "how LI was 20 years ago" to those people; do they not think that at least some of the things that have changed in LI that they do not care for are things that they are currently contributing to in the changing in NC?
That argument hold true only if you see that LI is not BAD... it is just BAD for certain people.

Many people like how LI is now- that is why they are still there. And others move there because they like how LI is now.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I get what you are saying. I have met plenty of people who moved to the Triangle seeking to make it a cheaper version of LI or Jersey or wherever. If they could succeed, then yes, they could ruin it.

But, the economy is making it impossible for that to happen. Thank goodness.

I will be interested to see your comments after you pass through.

BTW, are you happy with your move back? How does your life there compare with your life in the Triangle?
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Did Capt Chill write he wanted it both ways
Just illustrating the usual polar arguments.

<<< perhaps the money is there but citizens aren't getting full value for it.>>> Thatís a possibility.

One poster cited the large number of new teachers in Wake. That is in large part due to the growth. There are between 2-5K new students each year. Youíll need to add a lot of teachers. There arenít enough veteran teachers from other districts in NC and out-of-state to fill the void. And then you have to factor in the retirements and teachers who leave the area for whatever reason.

One other thought. When comparing student achievement it is better to look at graduation rates instead of drop-out rates. You can drop out more than once, but you can only graduate once.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:46 AM
 
29,462 posts, read 33,705,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emitchell View Post
Just illustrating the usual polar arguments.

<<< perhaps the money is there but citizens aren't getting full value for it.>>> That’s a possibility.

One poster cited the large number of new teachers in Wake. That is in large part due to the growth. There are between 2-5K new students each year. You’ll need to add a lot of teachers. There aren’t enough veteran teachers from other districts in NC and out-of-state to fill the void. And then you have to factor in the retirements and teachers who leave the area for whatever reason.

One other thought. When comparing student achievement it is better to look at graduation rates instead of drop-out rates. You can drop out more than once, but you can only graduate once.
Good points, I am not sure how Wake calulates graduation rates. It can be very different and can mask some real problems. Do you count 16 year olds who drop out in 8th grade? Most places don't. Also do you count students who leave a traditional school and go to a youth corp program. Wake has a horrendous graduation rate as identified in the article I linked the other day. I wonder how many ills in Wake have been masked by busing and a focus on that over the years and not the quality of schools as neighborhood schools. Some parents might be let down when they actually have neighborhood schools.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:49 PM
 
906 posts, read 2,070,072 times
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A lot of times the "bad' stories seem to get much more air time than the good ones.
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While I agree with this statement, I also think its important that people moving to the area are aware of what can happen. Also, it may not affect the majority of students, but the fact that it happens to anybody is sad. (I'm talking about the crazy assignments, not the ones that are unavoidable)
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:54 PM
 
906 posts, read 2,070,072 times
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The only problem you might have with tracks in YR school is that some middle schools only have advanced classes on certain tracks. I've met people who were informed that if they wanted their kid in adv math, they needed to switch tracks. If you have younger kids in trad yr, then you have to make sure they will accommodate them on the new track there as well.

Also, YR middle schools generally offer fewer electives than traditional calendar middle schools.
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Old 01-12-2010, 04:50 PM
 
5,265 posts, read 14,566,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYer View Post
That argument hold true only if you see that LI is not BAD... it is just BAD for certain people.

Many people like how LI is now- that is why they are still there. And others move there because they like how LI is now.

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I get what you are saying. I have met plenty of people who moved to the Triangle seeking to make it a cheaper version of LI or Jersey or wherever. If they could succeed, then yes, they could ruin it.

But, the economy is making it impossible for that to happen. Thank goodness.

I will be interested to see your comments after you pass through.

BTW, are you happy with your move back? How does your life there compare with your life in the Triangle?
Right...i understand the "different strokes for different folks" mentality. My point is that certain people who DON'T like the way LI is now, and who DO say that they think NC is like "LI 20 years ago" for the reasons I mentioned earlier who are currently moving there for the same reason people were moving to LI 20 years ago seem to be (unintentionally and probably unknowingly) hypocritical. Wow that's a huge run-on sentence! My grammar school teachers would not be happy!

Yes are are happy in NY. I feel that we can appreciate NC now more that we are away just as we had appreciated NY once we had left it a long time ago; but I don't think there will be any more moves. We miss March and early April actually being spring (as they are the gloomiest slush and yuck time of the year here) and the less pothole ridden roads (though we LOVE having the roads lit up more here; something we hadn't even noticed until moving back). And of course we miss the friends from down there. I definitely don't like having high property taxes here but I always thought the taxes down there needed to be just a little higher to compensate for the major infrastructure and school construction projects that were needed. Maybe property taxes are "just right" in Maryland? haha.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:34 PM
 
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There is a huge turnover in the teacher crew here in wake county every year. Hires of veteran teachers has been basically frozen due to budget issues. If you have 20+ years of experience you are basically out of getting a job now in the district.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capt chill View Post
There is a huge turnover in the teacher crew here in wake county every year.
Actually, Wake has one of the better turnover rates in the state, according to NC DPI

2007-08 Teacher Turnover Rate
WCPSS - 11.67%
Charlotte-Mecklenburg - 14.57%
Johnston - 14.84%
Chapel Hill-Carrboro -14.84%
Guilford -15.70%
Durham - 17.38%
State average - 13.85%
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