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This whole thread has wandered VERY far off-topic, as I mentioned a couple pages back. I've let it continue, because some of the discussion actually is relevent to the local school situation.
However, I'd appreciate if people would re-focus on Wake County schools specifically, rather than public schools in general.
Thanks.
Trying to bring the most recent postings inline with the OP thread question I offer the following;
Wake county may be at a critical crossroad that will determine much about the future of the county. Those that value public education and our willing to pay a premium for it on one hand vs those who don't see it as a priority and see the restraint of government spending and involvement on the other hand. Parents of school age children and those young marrieds with children to be are often more willing to pay as our those who are well educated themselves and value having a well educated population. The quality real or imagined of the school system has been one of the major selling points for Wake County in bringing commerce and jobs here. It is not often but it does happen that a wealthy suburban district openly begins to challenge the quality and direction of that system. I suspect the Chamber of Commerce is cringing. Older transplants quite possibly have a different perspective from young families moving to the area on the role of education funding and local fiscal policy. This is probably the next stage for the various actors now on display in the education arena to perform on. Will the budget recommendations of Burns be supported by a majority of the board or will they desire to assert their stamp and decision making process on the budget. Will the county be able to construct a budget independent of the diversity debate or will the diversity debate take over and be a driving force much like health care continues to dominate on the local level? What is the state thinking about all of this? and how do they react to the local decisions and the expectation that they will continue to fund their portion of the budget without weighing in on the policies their contributions are being used to carry out? How will they react if advocacy groups challenge the board on procedural issues and file complaints with the state? Hopefully things will begin to settle down and the image of the Wake County School System can have some of the luster restored. There is no immediate solution but what is a necessary first step is a willingness on the part of all to have discussion and not posturing and to try to find common ground moving forward.
How does the very valid problem of shuffling kids around like a deck of cards get resolved without creating "ghetto schools" for the poor kids? Definitely the redistricting has not been the right solution as it creates so much chaos and instability for all children involved, but throwing money at the poor neighborhood schools has never been an adequate solution either. I struggle with thinking creatively about how the schools of primarily F&R children that would result if/when neighborhood school zones are established could be helped to maintain quality in their schools. Wondering what others are thinking in terms of solutions to THAT problem (which is one that plagues most of the rest of the nation).
On second thought, this is an absolute disaster.
Any strategic course taken, not based on comprehensive planning, is doomed to a fix, refix, refix again, and a finally abandon outcome. None of the 5 board members spends their spare time at MENSA meetings or engaged in strategic planning sessions.
It's time for the business community to weigh in with their two cents; after all, they will be the recipients of this sure to fail strategy.
The WCSB's ready, fire, aim approach will add to the 50% of all Americans between the ages of 18-24 cannot find the state of New York on a map of the USA, and the 60% that cannot find Iraq on a world map (despite being at war with them years).
Reading through this thread then, I now have a new question: could Wake County go to an open enrollment, where students are free to attend whatever school they, or their parents, choose? Let the parents figure out how to get them there. Don't many schoolchildren elsewhere in the US rely upon public transportation to get to school?
Number of seats in a school could be posted, and students could apply -- first-come-first-serve basis, with maybe a % priority given to students wanting to attend as their own 'neighborhood school?'
Reading through this thread then, I now have a new question: could Wake County go to an open enrollment, where students are free to attend whatever school they, or their parents, choose? Let the parents figure out how to get them there. Don't many schoolchildren elsewhere in the US rely upon public transportation to get to school?
Number of seats in a school could be posted, and students could apply -- first-come-first-serve basis, with maybe a % priority given to students wanting to attend as their own 'neighborhood school?'
Could this perhaps be the happy medium?
Good gracious. We're having trouble being civil on a message board, could you imagine the mayhem that would ensue if it was first-come-first-serve? Aside from that, public transportation is very limited in most areas of Wake County. Unless they were to lower the driving age to, let's say five years old, I doubt it would be feasible. Of course, lowering the driving age to five would create a whole new set of problems...but wait...maybe we could convince Tedesco to look into it.
Won't the continuing existence of magnet programs (as currently implemented) mean that some kids will NOT be able to attend their "neighborhood school" due to lack of space? Granted I don't know what percentage of seats in a particular magnet school are utilized by kids from other areas, but it seems like a bit of a impossibility for magnets to exist unchanged with the new system.
Yes, of course you are correct. Not everyone can go to the closest school. However, in many areas, there are several schools within a few miles of each other.
For example, where I live, I am within a 5 to 10 minute drive from the following elementary schools: Jones Dairy, Wake Forest, Heritage, Forest Pines, North Forest Pines, Sanford Creek, and Rolesville. Of those, the first 3 are in Wake Forest so any of them would have my kids in a neighborhood school that was a sane bus ride from home.
Let's say you re-magnetized Wake Forest, since that's the oldest building. You could assign half the kids from lower income neighborhoods & have an open lottery the other half.
Everyone else could go to their nearest school, if possible. And for those who cannot, the nodes should at least be contiguous instead of the spot node system that sends kids so far away.
As for the Raleigh magnets? I'd grandfather them for existing students (that's my self interest rearing its ugly head!) and then let the kids closer in- from Raleigh & Cary go to them.
Let's start with the basics. Children are the responsibility of their parents. They do not belong to the county or any government. We are suppose to have freedom of choice. We all pay taxes to ensure everyone can get an education if they so choose.
Now a fair plan. All the taxes collected go into a pot. Every facility that enrolls a student, public or private, gets a standard portion of the kitty per student they enroll. Parents choose which school they want THEIR children to go to. This creates competition and opportunity. In the end, there will be fewer county run schools and more private schools. As long as all students are held to the same testing standards, it's all good.
There is NOTHING wrong with freedom and choice. It is what our country was founded on.
Reading through this thread then, I now have a new question: could Wake County go to an open enrollment, where students are free to attend whatever school they, or their parents, choose? Let the parents figure out how to get them there. Don't many schoolchildren elsewhere in the US rely upon public transportation to get to school?
Number of seats in a school could be posted, and students could apply -- first-come-first-serve basis, with maybe a % priority given to students wanting to attend as their own 'neighborhood school?'
Could this perhaps be the happy medium?
Open enrollment is often used in school districts until schools start to reach capacity. Some districts comparable to Raleigh will allow open enrollment until a school reaches say 95% capacity. The worse case scenario is overcrowding due to open enrollment and that is a big taboo. Once Wake gets districts settled and enrollment v capacity determined that is within the realm of possibility if schools do exist that are under the threshold. It becomes more difficult at the high school level due to athletics. At that level it creates the perfect environment for the recruitment of athletes and policies for that would need to be established.
Let's start with the basics. Children are the responsibility of their parents. They do not belong to the county or any government. We are suppose to have freedom of choice. We all pay taxes to ensure everyone can get an education if they so choose.
Now a fair plan. All the taxes collected go into a pot. Every facility that enrolls a student, public or private, gets a standard portion of the kitty per student they enroll. Parents choose which school they want THEIR children to go to. This creates competition and opportunity. In the end, there will be fewer county run schools and more private schools. As long as all students are held to the same testing standards, it's all good.
There is NOTHING wrong with freedom and choice. It is what our country was founded on.
Can I count on your vote if I run for office?
No, as your idea of each school being funded based on enrollment is not realistic. As soon as you mention Special Education you are changing funding. As soon as you provide assistance under No Child Left Behind for students who have not passed mandated testing you are changing funding. As soon as you put a para professional in one class and not another you are changing funding. As soon as one school has a different ratio of teachers based on salary and education you are changing funding for salaries etc etc etc. Nope not my vote. Not for personal reasons but we disagree on how funding distribution works. If a school has a capacity for 750 students and 2,500 want to attend how does freedom and choice work in enrollmetn?
So much to think about, and I'm developing a headache. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP
It becomes more difficult at the high school level due to athletics. At that level it creates the perfect environment for the recruitment of athletes and policies for that would need to be established.
It's hardly kosher, and certainly not sanctioned, but plenty of high schools recruit athletes. Said talent will claim an aunt's address, or some family member's or friend's, to be within the high school's district -- the athlete esjust don't get caught, generally, unless another kid rat's-'em-out. I don't know if recruiting athletes would be such a bad thing. I could see members of, say, the Quiz Bowl, or Quill and Scroll, and other groups possibly recruiting, too. Let the best school(s) win. In a sense, don't magnet schools 'recruit' with the programs offered? I have known Principals and other administrators to 'woo' students into their schools.
I may certainly be mistaken, but I think New Hanover County Schools, down in Wilmington, has open enrollment.
Reading through all of these posts is thought-provoking. I am happy for the dialogue. Sure wish there was a simpler solution for our schools. I guess, for me, I just think the time and the money spent on buses could be put to better use, and more justifiable towards student success.
In the years since the 1960s, when busing was initiated, what exactly has busing accomplished? Are minority, or otherwise disadvantaged, students really any better off for having been bused?
It's hardly kosher, and certainly not sanctioned, but plenty of high schools recruit athletes. Said talent will claim an aunt's address, or some family member's or friend's, to be within the high school's district -- the athlete esjust don't get caught, generally, unless another kid rat's-'em-out. I don't know if recruiting athletes would be such a bad thing. I could see members of, say, the Quiz Bowl, or Quill and Scroll, and other groups possibly recruiting, too. Let the best school(s) win. In a sense, don't magnet schools 'recruit' with the programs offered? I have known Principals and other administrators to 'woo' students into their schools.
I may certainly be mistaken, but I think New Hanover County Schools, down in Wilmington, has open enrollment.
Reading through all of these posts is thought-provoking. I am happy for the dialogue. Sure wish there was a simpler solution for our schools. I guess, for me, I just think the time and the money spent on buses could be put to better use, and more justifiable towards student success.
In the years since the 1960s, when busing was initiated, what exactly has busing accomplished? Are minority, or otherwise disadvantaged, students really any better off for having been bused?
The question becomes how many currently transported students will now become walkers. If students who would have been walkers were being bussed then someone in student assignment needed their heads examined. I don't know that answer. What you suggest as a happy medium is in many ways just that. The only problem is it usually works in districts experiencing declining enrollment or those wealthy enough to be ahead of the curve and building schools in anticipation of enrollment coming. As far as recruitment goes what ever the community can live with is what would probably be the norm. I think what your suggestion is that if every school could be left at 80-85% capacity with room for open enrollment a lot of folks would be very happy.
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