What IS the solution of Wake schools then? (Raleigh, Columbia: fit in, neighborhood)

[Minier]

How does the very valid problem of shuffling kids around like a deck of cards get resolved without creating "ghetto schools" for the poor kids? Definitely the redistricting has not been the right solution as it creates so much chaos and instability for all children involved, but throwing money at the poor neighborhood schools has never been an adequate solution either. I struggle with thinking creatively about how the schools of primarily F&R children that would result if/when neighborhood school zones are established could be helped to maintain quality in their schools. Wondering what others are thinking in terms of solutions to THAT problem (which is one that plagues most of the rest of the nation).

[JViello]

Vouchers. It worked in DC.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

I would disagree with you that vouchers worked in DC. So would many others. There are plenty of ghetto schools in DC. IIRC abandonning the voucher program there.

In 2009 the president of the National Education Association, the nation's largest teachers union, called the voucher program "an ongoing threat to public education in the District of Columbia".

To the OP. Great question.

Despite what some would have you believe there is no easy answer.

[CHTransplant]

It depends on what you define the problem as.

[Minier]

Don't know much about D.C. schools ... is it common that some believe vouchers succeeded there while others don't think so? Seems like there would be a way to get some objective sense of it, no? So which is it?

Despite what some would have you believe there is no easy answer.

Oh, I don't know anyone, including myself, that thinks it's an easy answer.

It depends on what you define the problem as.

Very true. I guess I see it this way: poor, uneducated parents don't have the knowledge base, resources, capacity and (sometimes) the motivation to fulfill an important part of the education equation: positive parental involvement. They also can't serve as positive role models (as far as modeling being a student and professional), which I believe is the #1 ingredient to academic/ career success. Then there's "community environment", which is basically the sum of all that parents have (or don't have) to offer - that makes a big difference too. Quality teacher recruitment is affected by community environment and, once you end up with lower quality teachers, the school itself becomes deprived, creating a triple whammy.

Middle and upper class parents are more able, in general, to offer these things to their kids - and to maintain a more resourceful "community environment". Therefore, poor children fall behind little by little until they are left in the dust (with many exceptional exceptions, of course) while middle and upper class children plunge forward (with their own exceptions, of course).

I suppose the argument FOR redistricting is that, while you don't change the personal circumstances of the parents, you DO change "community environment" for the child by incorporating into every school some of what the middle and upper class parents have to offer. This, in turn, helps maintain higher teacher quality (good teachers will want to work there). At that point, you have removed two potential risk factors for the poor kids, though the main one (parent) still remains. And, mind you, I'm not saying poor parents are bad parents (I was raised by poor parents), but I am saying that, when it comes to education, an uneducated parent is not one that can help their child move forward in a concrete way, despite their best intentions. With decreased risk, that child is more likely to succeed educationally and professionally and the cycle can be broken.

So, how would one increase educational and professional success for poor children WITHOUT reshuffling them into communities with greater resources to compensate for what's lacking in their parent's educational background?

I'm not for redistricting, btw, I'm asking this honestly out of sheer curiosity ... it's easy to complain about what doesn't work ... but it always helps to ponder alternate solutions.

[nclass]

Wonderful question! It seems like whatever happens a large group of people are unhappy.Even a section of people that voted for a change recently seem to be unhappy. I hope there is a happy compromise but perhaps its wishful thinking.

[flavadave]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

I would disagree with you that vouchers worked in DC. So would many others. There are plenty of ghetto schools in DC. IIRC abandonning the voucher program there.

In 2009 the president of the National Education Association, the nation's largest teachers union, called the voucher program "an ongoing threat to public education in the District of Columbia".

To the OP. Great question.

Despite what some would have you believe there is no easy answer.

And by that he means a threat to the public education system and not education as an ideal. A teachers' union is of course going to be against anything that may endanger itself. As a proponent of public education they must necessarily be antagonistic toward private education.


I agree there is no easy answer or that if there were it would require a total upheaval of the system and our expectations.

[lovebrentwood]

I think they should dismantle the entire school system, fire all the teachers and administrators, get rid of all the educational materials, and build it all again from scratch.

[North_Raleigh_Guy]

Originally Posted by Minier

Oh, I don't know anyone, including myself, that thinks it's an easy answer.

You would be surprised. I can't count the number of times I've seen somebody on the news simply say "just allow children to go to their neighborhood schools".

As if it is as easy as waving a magic wand to allow that to happen. Stopping busing doesn't mean everyone will fit into an overcrowded neighborhood school.

[sls76]

Originally Posted by North_Raleigh_Guy

I would disagree with you that vouchers worked in DC. So would many others. There are plenty of ghetto schools in DC. IIRC abandonning the voucher program there.

In 2009 the president of the National Education Association, the nation's largest teachers union, called the voucher program "an ongoing threat to public education in the District of Columbia".

To the OP. Great question.

Despite what some would have you believe there is no easy answer.

Wow, I'm shocked that a teachers' union doesn't like vouchers.

ETA: Why not ask the economically disadvantaged students who go to school with the POTUS's daughters if the voucher program works.