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The whole real estate merry go round is mired in mud , outdated state laws , less than honest lenders , too many brokers and agents , and profiteers feeding on the bones of the poor home owner. ........ Contract law in its simplest form should be all thats needed, when selling a home,a car , or anything else. These days , a car can cost as much or more than a home, and , selling a car is easy. A car has a title , so does a home. Why do we need a title company , when they deny in the contract they are not responsible for anything ? legal council same thing, it should be up to the individual as to just who he wants to represent him, or not. So many state laws , sponsored by the Real estate lobby, and they differ state to state, yet , the loans are resold around the world , the buyer never knows who his lender is. The whole thing needs to be simplified , on a federal level , so , we are all on the same page..........is it any wonder FSBO is gaining in numbers. If I wanted to sell my house , and , I wanted max exposure, I would offer a commission to anyone who brought me a buyer. No exclusives for me ! In the real world of business, exclusives are a thing of the past. As a broker or agent , your "contract" is only as good as your performance. The customer should be free to do what ever he wants, buyer, seller beware, just as in the sale of anything else out there, period.
Some laws are outdated but almost all are intended to protect the buyer or seller.
The title company at least does a 40 year search for clear title and the title insurance is in case something is missed. It's not as if there's no point.
Simplification or transparency?
FSBO's are actually trending down and not up. went from 18% in '97 to 12% in '07. There are no exclusives when you list on the commission except the marketing company gets their share, any licensed Realtor that brings a buyer gets paid!
To a degree contract is good as performance but if it's writing and someone doesn't perform they are liable.
We aren't talking about buying a vacation, or a car which is typically a small portion of one's net worth. We are talking about something that is the bulk of one's net worth and the laws are in place to protect from the underhanded individuals.
If I was a seller, and you put this in front of me, I would laugh. Perhaps I would sign it, after crossing out everything I didn't like and writing in other statements that I wanted you to agree to.
What is it about agents that makes them think they can "require" people who have no contractual relationship with them sign documents? This is the control aspect of the industry that is so bothersome.
"If you don't sign this document, I'll take MY buyer elsewhere!"
We have one. It says something to the effect "__________ (owners) acknowledges that ERA Wilder Realty does not represent them in the sale of ________(address)snd owes no agency relationships to the seller.
Would you butcher that? What are all the lines you'd strike though? It makes no demands, only acknowledges agency policies. No serious seller would balk at that.
Some laws are outdated but almost all are intended to protect the buyer or seller.
The title company at least does a 40 year search for clear title and the title insurance is in case something is missed. It's not as if there's no point.
Simplification or transparency?
FSBO's are actually trending down and not up. went from 18% in '97 to 12% in '07. There are no exclusives when you list on the commission except the marketing company gets their share, any licensed Realtor that brings a buyer gets paid!
To a degree contract is good as performance but if it's writing and someone doesn't perform they are liable.
We aren't talking about buying a vacation, or a car which is typically a small portion of one's net worth. We are talking about something that is the bulk of one's net worth and the laws are in place to protect from the underhanded individuals.
A lot of FSBOs are off the grid, especially now days.
I did find that the title co. was much less expensive than a lawyer.
The 6 per cent still goes out , even if you sell it yourself, if you are under contract.
With all the foreclosures, a lot of houses are selling for a lot less than a car. People put way too much stock in the value of their home , they always think its worth more than it is. Its worth what you can sell it for, just like a large SUV these days.... Its not just declining values of sub standard homes ether. Mc mansions are feeling the pinch as well, , its utility costs that are driving the resale. For many folks in the northern tier, their utilitys are more than their mortgage , on and on , ...... All of the above tends to create tormented seller, a frustrated agent , or the other way around. This leaves lots of room for people to be creative , I don't blame them , law or no law.
If I was a seller, and you put this in front of me, I would laugh. Perhaps I would sign it, after crossing out everything I didn't like and writing in other statements that I wanted you to agree to.
What is it about agents that makes them think they can "require" people who have no contractual relationship with them sign documents? This is the control aspect of the industry that is so bothersome.
"If you don't sign this document, I'll take MY buyer elsewhere!"
What is it about agents that makes them think they can require this?
I'd venture that it's knowledge of or experience with a lawsuit filed by some unrepresented seller who tried to claim that the Real estate agent didn't give him the advise he thought he should be getting. That suit would have been filed & prosecuted regardlessof the fact that the agent did not, never claimed to, and has nothing suggesting that he did, represent that seller, and did in fact represent the buyer of that property. And that seller would have said, to some judge who may have actually agreed with the seller to the financial detriment of the agent, "Gee, I'm just a poor consumer and I thought I didn't need an agent of my own becausue he was involved. I thought he had to give me the best advice."
What makes an agent feel he can do that is the fact that he HAS to do that, to protect himself. And any unrepresented seller who has a problem acknowldeging that he is in fact unrepresented, and that he understands what that means, is a seller I don't want to deal with. So yes, I will take my buyer elsewhere, or let my buyer proceed without me, if he so chooses. That sale, even that buyer, are not worth my license.
Some laws are outdated but almost all are intended to protect the buyer or seller.
The title company at least does a 40 year search for clear title and the title insurance is in case something is missed. It's not as if there's no point.
Simplification or transparency?
FSBO's are actually trending down and not up. went from 18% in '97 to 12% in '07. There are no exclusives when you list on the commission except the marketing company gets their share, any licensed Realtor that brings a buyer gets paid!
To a degree contract is good as performance but if it's writing and someone doesn't perform they are liable.
We aren't talking about buying a vacation, or a car which is typically a small portion of one's net worth. We are talking about something that is the bulk of one's net worth and the laws are in place to protect from the underhanded individuals.
4. Real estate sales went down!!!
How much less did the realtors sell? So to take only FSBO as being sold as lower....
By the way I wrote this before....I received a card froma realtor stating this property was sold by him in the last month......That house was mine and he didn't sell it, so much for all these polls and percentages.....
We have one. It says something to the effect "__________ (owners) acknowledges that ERA Wilder Realty does not represent them in the sale of ________(address)snd owes no agency relationships to the seller.
Would you butcher that? What are all the lines you'd strike though? It makes no demands, only acknowledges agency policies. No serious seller would balk at that.
Why do I have to sign this....If I haven't signed an agreement to be represented by this agent, I'm not represented and don't need to sign it...
Maybe I should draw up a paper stating I don't want that realtor to represent me and have him sign it...would he....?
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman
FSBO's are actually trending down and not up. went from 18% in '97 to 12% in '07. There are no exclusives when you list on the commission except the marketing company gets their share, any licensed Realtor that brings a buyer gets paid!
Originally Posted by bentlebee:
Real estate sales went down!!!
bentlebee, if you'll notice, Brandon was speaking in percentages, so whether or not real estate sales went up or down, the percentages going down is what tells the story.
Why do I have to sign this....If I haven't signed an agreement to be represented by this agent, I'm not represented and don't need to sign it...
This would only be signed if you were now involved in a transaction and the agent was representing the buyer and you were unrepresented. You could (and some have) at a later time claim that you thought the agent was representing you (whatever they did). This paper is merely evidence that everyone is on the same page (and an opportunity for everyone to get on the same page if they aren't already there - if the seller truly doesn't understand that the buyer's agent represents the buyer's interests, not the seller's, isn't it in their best interests for that to be clarified up front?).
Maybe I should draw up a paper stating I don't want that realtor to represent me and have him sign it...would he....?
I can't speak for others, and I'd have to read the document in question, but if it were drawn up by an attorney and that's what it said, sure, I'd sign in. It would be protection for me and my broker and my client, after all. It would, in essence, be no different than the document that we're speaking of that you don't want to sign, saying pretty much the same thing.
You are correct - you don't get what I am saying. The seller is not doing a transaction with you, so there is no reason to give you anything. If the buyer asks for something, of course that's a different story b/c the seller DOES want to do a deal with the buyer.
IMO it is ridiculous to think that someone with whom you have no contractual relationship should be pressured to sign something that you get a benefit from but the seller gets nothing out of.
Will you sign something for the seller that says that the seller is not liable for anything that you tell your buyer?
This is a simple business transaction. There is no reason for an agent to start demanding protections from folks who never asked the agent to be involved.
And your last paragraph is indicative of the conflict of interest that agents must deal with. The agents that you describe are choosing their own interests over those of their clients.
This has nothing to do with state specific laws because you can't assume that those same laws exist in other states.
Sorry, but he does get what you are saying. Acknowledgements of relationships are at 1st significant contact and required by law to protect the consumer. Not required if just the seller and buyer are involved. Significant contact can be any discussion of price even if it is not a negotiation. For ex: What are you basing your price on? Fine w/ me if you have an ax to grind. Sort of like trying to show a home w/ a viscous dog.........buyer becomes so distracted it becomes a waste of time for the buyer... just what someone looking for a home needs...hostility......especially if the seller has an anti-realtor woody............ooops...once again acting in my own interest????????
Sorry, but he does get what you are saying. Acknowledgements of relationships are at 1st significant contact and required by law to protect the consumer. Not required if just the seller and buyer are involved. Significant contact can be any discussion of price even if it is not a negotiation. For ex: What are you basing your price on? Fine w/ me if you have an ax to grind. Sort of like trying to show a home w/ a viscous dog.........buyer becomes so distracted it becomes a waste of time for the buyer... just what someone looking for a home needs...hostility......especially if the seller has an anti-realtor woody............ooops...once again acting in my own interest????????
Shoots and scores!
Why would anyone, Agent or Buyer bother? The home would have to be extremely desirable to contend with a Seller who doesn't respect the law.
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