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Evie, she didn't say she wouldn't get the information. She said it was irrevelant and I agreed. I also didn't state that I would not get the information that is requested. In fact if I'm requested, I have an obligation to get the information, whether I think it's revelent or not. But I also have the right to state whether I think it's revelent or not.
I began studying real estate investing, and doing my own investments in the early 70's. The office I work out of today is owned by investors, and many of the agents there, including myself, are investors, and I work with investors. So I do know a little bit about the investment process and what information is needed in order to make a good investment, whether it's in a single family home, a multi-unit property, or a business sale.
So yes, you are correct, it is my opinion, and my opinion comes from years of experience.
Evie, if you read back, you'll note that I provided the requested information on sale price history and transfers of ownership.
However, the fact that the home was built in 1970, transferred within the family for $1.00 (this happens quite a bit in my area) two times in the past 30 years and has no outstanding mortgage or liens has absolutely no relevance on its current market value. So the owners were shrewd in their investment 30 years ago and it's current market value has quadrupled since they built the home. Does that mean they're going to give it away for less than current market value? Would you or your investors?
Now, if the home is in danger of foreclosure, that's different. That speaks to motivation, which can and will affect what the Seller (or Bank) is willing to accept as a loss. Different story entirely.
What was it listed at two years ago? In a different market? When the Sellers were going through a divorce? Patched things up and decided to work it out? That list price has nothing to do with what it's listed at today (or why it's listed today). Divorce again? Health problems? College? Retiring? That information is not recorded with the Assessor or Registry of Deeds and is not a matter of public record. And no Listing Agent worth his/her salt, living up to the COE and the Listing Agreement, would never disclose those factors.
Hi there. My local MLS - the TREND MLS (PA, NJ, etc) hides valuable information on comps from the consumer. When my agent sends me recent comps, I cannot see the price history! None of it. It won't even show me the list price at the time of the offer, let alone all the complete price history. It only gives the sales price. This is obviously very valuable information they are hiding from the buyer.
Given the lawsuit against the buyer's agent (New York Times article) the take-away is you cannot count on your agent to give you the information. You must find it yourself.
Why would the MLS hide this from the consumer? I sent them an email but they didn't reply.
Do any other regions do this? Is there anything I can do to change it?
We already have to go though an agent to get the comps in the first place, and then even when we do we can't get transparency!
They Generally do this because if you are shopping for a home and a realtor is sending you properties, they want to ensure that between the time he sent them to you and the time you actually view them if the status has changed to no longer being available, you will not be viewing unavailable properties.
The mls is not a tool for consumers to run their own comps, it is an expensive tool which realtors pay for and must be licensed to use. Visit your agent and ask them to run comps with you in the office, I'm sure they will be more than happy to accomodate and perhaps even print them for you if so desired.
Try google the address and most often you can see previous realtors who listed it and what the previous listing prices were and you can always ask the listing agent if there has been an offer that fell through?
Hi there. My local MLS - the TREND MLS (PA, NJ, etc) hides valuable information on comps from the consumer. When my agent sends me recent comps, I cannot see the price history! None of it. It won't even show me the list price at the time of the offer, let alone all the complete price history. It only gives the sales price. This is obviously very valuable information they are hiding from the buyer.
I'm a little confused.
You say the listings you are receiving only have the sales price, not the list price. That would indicate to me that you are looking at closed properties. I can see the benefit on listed properties that you are considering making an offer on what the "price history" is, but not on sold comps. What is important on them is what they sold at most recently. It makes no difference that the seller thought they could get $800,000 for their house a year ago. If it sold for $300,000 last week, that is what the market will support. My house is worth probably $170,000. If I put it on the market for $500,000, what bearing does that have on anything? The only price that is important for sold comps is their most recent sales price.
As for the "price history" you ask about... I would consider the price history to be that the seller started out at w, lowered the price on this day to x, then on this date to y, and then it sold at z. Do you instead mean you want to know what it sold for last time it sold? That is not information that the MLS always has available to them. Ours only tracks back to about 2003 (I think), so any house that hasn't sold since then will have no information. Also, the house has to have sold through MLS and has to have had a price reported sold. If all of those didn't happen, there is no information. That isn't a transparancy issue, its a lack of information issue. They can't show what they don't know.
In addition, that information doesn't show on any of our normal reports, just because they try to make the reports fit on one page. You have to print the right one for the information you want to obtain. Our "All Fields Detail" sheet is at least 2 and sometimes 3 pages for each listing. The history is another several pages beyond that.
Our MLS has the history of listing prices available to the agents if they know where to look, but it does not show up on any of our listing printouts. It does show the original price and current price though. You are saying yours doesn't even show the last listed price, only the sales price. You should ask for a different printout style. Its probably because you are getting a "sold comp" type printout.
I do understand the concept of wanting a price history on current listings. It helps to know when the price was last lowered, as to whether or not the seller would be likely to take a lower offer, and how many times it has been lowered, to see how desperate they might be, etc. In today's market of the Many Many Short Sales, it helps to know a seller's current mortgage balance, since that is the number the bank will be looking at recouping. But all that is only if you are looking to make an offer on that property.
I do understand the concept of wanting a price history on current listings. It helps to know when the price was last lowered, as to whether or not the seller would be likely to take a lower offer, and how many times it has been lowered, to see how desperate they might be, etc. In today's market of the Many Many Short Sales, it helps to know a seller's current mortgage balance, since that is the number the bank will be looking at recouping. But all that is only if you are looking to make an offer on that property.
Knowing the sellers current mortgage balance for short sales would be valuable information...which is probably why it is closely guarded. But that still may not give a total picture if there are other liens against the property. I agree with the other agents, 30 homes as comps is way too much. The information gleaned form the tax records can be provided by the broker in our MLS; however, this still does not present a buyer with a total picture - there may have been concessions, and this will be a reduction of the final sales price that will not show up in the Tax records.
Many times clients need an agent that will tell them what they "need" to hear, and not what they "want" to hear. That is when an agent is best representing their client.
I don't give reps out to often, so I wonder why they won't let me give one to you for this quote. I mean the main value in hiring a realtor is using their experience and knowledge to help you make an informed decision. Not to have an order taker that will just help you speed of the process of making your own mistake. Or make you feel good about making the mistake.
So many people today get caught up in paralysis of analysis and an overload of information that is usually worthless.
I didn't see anywhere that Viva was an investor, in fact I beleive they mentioned they would be living in the home they are purchasing. I can't understand why the listing history of 30 different properties would help you get a lower price or be in a better negotiation position. Now 300 or 3000 properties, I can. Figuring out local sales price to list prices can be relevant (a data set of 30 properties wouldn't help much with that), but beyond that knowing what the listing history was on SOLD properties is pretty useless. Knowing what the list price was at the time of sale....I can see some use.
If you were working with me, and you asked for all this data, I would certainly provide it, but I would also delve more into figuring out WHY you wanted it. To me it seems like you are looking more to find market data of what sellers are accepting vs what they are asking, and asking what you are asking is an incorrect way to find this information.
So I have to ask, WHY do you beleive this information is useful in your decision?
Now for active listings listing history is somewhat relevant, depending on the property. Some sellers drop their prices pretty regularly or predictably. Time on market can be significant, and I would LOVE to know what previous offers might have been that were rejected or fell through...but that information is not in the MLS and is confidential, in fact if you could find that stuff out (which I always will try to within legal bounds) I hope your not getting that info from the listing agent as they could be sued for giving out that kind of info without permission.
It also seems like you are trying to do things backwards. Finding the best price, then finding the right property to put that price. Seems like spinning your wheels to me. Didn't the investor you were trained by tell you to find the ideal property, figure out your maximum price, then try to get it for as cheaply as you can?
I don't know, I haven't quite read through all the posts on here, so maybe I'm just off base with what I think you are asking. I'm 1000 miles away and figuring out a clients true goals usually takes alot more information than can be decifered from a forum.
It also seems like you are trying to do things backwards. Finding the best price, then finding the right property to put that price. Seems like spinning your wheels to me. Didn't the investor you were trained by tell you to find the ideal property, figure out your maximum price, then try to get it for as cheaply as you can?
I would agree with this. With my investor's we narrow it down to 3-5 properties and then do extensive research. Why waste time on properties that aren't worth it?
Knowing the sellers current mortgage balance for short sales would be valuable information...which is probably why it is closely guarded. But that still may not give a total picture if there are other liens against the property. I agree with the other agents, 30 homes as comps is way too much. The information gleaned form the tax records can be provided by the broker in our MLS; however, this still does not present a buyer with a total picture - there may have been concessions, and this will be a reduction of the final sales price that will not show up in the Tax records.
Not as closely guarded as you might think. If a house is a short sale, often (but of course not always) foreclosure notice might have been served. If the clock started ticking, a notice of Trustee Sale should have run in a newspaper. That notice would have the opening bid amount, which should be close to what the balance is. Not exact, but ballpark. At that point, it becomes public information.
However, you are exactly correct as to the possibility of other liens. That is usually much more difficult to find out. If the additional liens are not from the same party as the first, though, it may make no difference.
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Why do they do this?
