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Old 03-29-2019, 04:34 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
33,647 posts, read 58,353,680 times
Reputation: 32368

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No successful agent would consider minimum wage hourly employment as superior to 100% commission pay.

One failed agent would, and she sued for minimum wage in California:

https://www.inman.com/2019/03/27/pur...4y8c-crgYhGEZc

The Complaint:
https://webassets.inman.com/wp-conte...int_012219.pdf

And, the Defendant Response:
https://webassets.inman.com/wp-conte...int_031519.pdf

OTOH, it will be fun to watch this one play out.
Agents, team leaders, rainmakers, who walk all over employment law with their support staff should be concerned.
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Old 03-29-2019, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
14,010 posts, read 32,913,714 times
Reputation: 12769
Oh I see this all the time with the KW teams in my area. They dictate their hours, quotas for cold calling and door knocking, etc which you can't do for independent contractor law. I don't see how they could possibly be considered independent contactors.
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Old 03-29-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
5,621 posts, read 3,125,968 times
Reputation: 15319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
Oh I see this all the time with the KW teams in my area. They dictate their hours, quotas for cold calling and door knocking, etc which you can't do for independent contractor law. I don't see how they could possibly be considered independent contactors.

FWIW, we started out at KW... they definitely have a lot of suggestions for habits and activity quotas, but you can choose to do all or none of it.

For good or ill, hubby and I tried and rejected cold calling and door knocking completely, worked from home, did our own thing and only rarely went into the office for meetings. They love their formulas and 'systems' at KW, and I chuckle sometimes at how cultish they feel, with the whole "family" and culture thing... but you don't HAVE to do it. We didn't do any of it, we never went to BOLD, we never came in for any of the script training or cold calling practices, and we were still well liked there and when we decided to leave the brokerage this last winter, I think they were sorry to see us go. I really liked many of the other brokers there and stay in contact with them now.

But that's KW.... I don't know a thing about Purplebricks... they're not even in this area, I've only heard of them here on this forum.

Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 03-29-2019 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 03-29-2019, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
14,010 posts, read 32,913,714 times
Reputation: 12769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
FWIW, we started out at KW... they definitely have a lot of suggestions for habits and activity quotas, but you can choose to do all or none of it.

For good or ill, hubby and I tried and rejected cold calling and door knocking completely, worked from home, did our own thing and only rarely went into the office for meetings. They love their formulas and 'systems' at KW, and I chuckle sometimes at how cultish they feel, with the whole "family" and culture thing... but you don't HAVE to do it. We didn't do any of it, we never went to BOLD, we never came in for any of the script training or cold calling practices, and we were still well liked there and when we decided to leave the brokerage this last winter, I think they were sorry to see us go. I really liked many of the other brokers there and stay in contact with them now.

But that's KW.... I don't know a thing about Purplebricks... they're not even in this area, I've only heard of them here on this forum.
Oh it isn't from KW itself. It is the team leaders that are creating employee issues. We have team leaders in my area that require their agents to work 8-5 and take weekends off.
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Old 03-29-2019, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,405 posts, read 7,191,039 times
Reputation: 8122
I would say that real estate agency in CA could be in for big changes. Frankly, it's a bit surprising that a group of 185K people can't get a little better state-level politicking done.


Quote:
The Jan. 22, 2019 complaint uses an April 2018 decision made by the California Supreme Court in Dynamex Operations West Inc. v. The Superior Court of Los Angeles County as the basis for its claims. The ruling instituted a three-factor “ABC” test in which a worker is considered an independent contractor only if the hiring entity establishes:
Quote:
(A) that the worker is free from the control and direction of the hirer in connection with the performance of the work, both under the contract for the performance of such work and in fact;
this is the "you must work certain hours, or you must show that you've done X prospecting" issue ... which can be fairly easily changed

Quote:
(B) that the worker performs work that is outside the usual course of the hiring entity’s business; and
here's the HUGE issue in CA, it seems - though I am not a lawyer. How does a real estate agent, working for a real estate brokerage, do work outside the usual course of the brokerage business?


Quote:
(C) that the worker is customarily engaged in an independently established trade, occupation, or business of the same nature as the work performed for the hiring entity.
It is very weird to me - b and c seem contradictory ... so how can BOTH be true? Makes me happy I don't live in CA though!
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Old 03-29-2019, 11:08 PM
 
451 posts, read 269,891 times
Reputation: 883
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
here's the HUGE issue in CA, it seems - though I am not a lawyer. How does a real estate agent, working for a real estate brokerage, do work outside the usual course of the brokerage business?
Theoretically? A brokerage's business is selling oversight to people with sales licenses and support services and marketing to agents and brokers.
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Old 03-30-2019, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
33,647 posts, read 58,353,680 times
Reputation: 32368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
Oh I see this all the time with the KW teams in my area. They dictate their hours, quotas for cold calling and door knocking, etc which you can't do for independent contractor law. I don't see how they could possibly be considered independent contactors.

Sure. Yup.

But, this mess definitely isn't limited to KW.
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,405 posts, read 7,191,039 times
Reputation: 8122
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope48 View Post
Theoretically? A brokerage's business is selling oversight to people with sales licenses and support services and marketing to agents and brokers.
in NC, the consumer hires the brokerage company for brokerage services. It just happens that there's an individual agent involved. Look up any brokerage website - is it showing homes for sale/a home search feature, or is its main website marketing to attract new brokers/agents?

But again, I'm not in CA
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Old 04-01-2019, 09:54 AM
 
404 posts, read 291,207 times
Reputation: 353
PurpleBricks is kind of like Redfin they have their own agents. From my understanding Redfin does pay their agents a small wage around the minimum, it can be higher based on their experience. If PurpleBrick is mandating work time they are employees. I know the Redfin agent say they work many hour, more than 40 hours a week, but she said their base salary stays the same and it seems it just at are just above the minimum wage.

Its really hard to employee someone in this industry as we are on call, you pay them for an 8-5 job, but they have to show homes until 8PM or go to listing appointments. I doubt any of these companies are paying overtime, unless they can justify their commission as the equivalent?
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