Polybutylene pipes (agent, commission, contract, Realtors)

[flowerlady9]

I'm interested in other realtors opinions on this one.

My house went under contract(in 3 weeks!) and we just had the home inspection. Big problem is the house has polybutylene pipes. I bought the house in 1992 so I didn't realize this was an issue.

Buyer wants the pipes replaced including the one going to the well.

Are these pipes really an issue? My agent says the house is unsalable unless I replace these pipes. I'm getting an estimate later this week.

Thanks.

[VickiR]

I live in Raleigh, NC. Most of the houses built in the late '80s and early '90s have poly pipes. There was a class action suit against the pipe makers since some of the fittings had a higher number than usual of leaks. Alot of people in this area that had leaks, had the company do the repairs free of charge, by getting added to the lawsuit. Now, 10 years later, those of us that have the poly pipes have no reason to replace them. I would suspect if they were going to leak, that would have happened years before now.

I'm not sure how the laws work in your state. If the buyer put in the contract that they were not going to buy a house with poly pipes, I would think they could get out of the contract. If they didn't put this in the contract, I'm not sure they can expect you to remove the poly pipes as they are "functioning as intended" as long as they show no signs of leakage.

If your agent doesn't want to fight for you, have her contact the Real Estate Commission in the state you are in and ask one of the attorneys there what their opinion is.

We sell plenty of houses that still have poly pipes here.

Vicki

[Morriah]

I had this issue before when I represented the buyer and he had the same concerns. Basically, polybutylene pipes are guaranteed to fail and should be replaced. It will be a concern with any buyer who looks at your house so you might as well get the estimates and make plans to either replace them or contribute a sum of money to the replacement cost. Sorry!

[Silverfall]

It is a perception problem. Out here the LP lawsuit was huge and there are homes that have LP in GREAT CONDITION on it, but the mere mention of the word sends buyer's scurrying away.

Even if your pipes aren't leaking, the mere mention that you have them will deter buyers. I am with Morriah on this one, that despite the fact that they are functioning, you probably won't have a choice due to the perception that they will fail at some point.

[CAugust]

In regard to the pipes, I dont know how much the replacement would be, but could that be negotiated into the price, so you do not have to do it yourself? I know its less money for you, however if you are going to outlay the money anyway...............

[Debi18]

It's a large expensive MESSY PITA to do a complete replumb. I just went through it last year, UGH! If there are no leaks inside the house my advice is get the estimate and offer all or part of that amount back as a seller concession, and let them deal with it whenever they want to. If they refuse and demand you have it done before closing, if I were you, I wouldn't do it. In order to replace the PB system you have to open up walls and ceilings to remove and replace the pipes, you may not have water for days (depending on how efficient your plumber is) and then you have to have all that drywall fixed and repainted. The buyer will nitpick the wall and paint work guaranteed and god help you if the plumber you hire leaves a leaky pipe and mold results. Yep, if you don’t have any current leaks and the PB system is functioning correctly offer them the money, if that’s not good enough let them walk and then disclose the PB pipes to the next buyer with the cash back concession, or take the house off the market, do the replumb and then put it back on the market and advertise the house with "all new plumbing". The sad part is, not all PB pipe is bad. We had the class action law suit inspectors inspect our system and we were told our pipe and fittings did not qualify for a free replumb (because our particular brand of PB and the fittings used were not considered faulty). We have been in the house for 15 years and never had issue with the pipes but the bad rep of these pipes forces anyone who has them to replace them if they ever want to sell the house.

[VickiR]

Like I previously stated, we have poly pipes in thousands of homes in this area and that has not prevented any of them from being re sold.

I can't speak for all areas but in this area, I have had sellers with poly pipes and buyers that could care less.

Vicki

[gypsydoc]

Originally Posted by flowerlady9

I'm interested in other realtors opinions on this one.

My house went under contract(in 3 weeks!) and we just had the home inspection. Big problem is the house has polybutylene pipes. I bought the house in 1992 so I didn't realize this was an issue.

Buyer wants the pipes replaced including the one going to the well.

Are these pipes really an issue? My agent says the house is unsalable unless I replace these pipes. I'm getting an estimate later this week.

Thanks.

Just had an inspection last week with those types of pipes. The problem is the material the joints are made of, according to the inspector. They were either aluminum or copper. If aluminum, there were apt to be more problems. If copper, not really. The aluminum expanded quicker and further than the pipe and became loose. The copper didn't expand that much. In my inspector's opinion, if they'd been there that long and there was no evidence of leaks, they were functioning as intended and replacement wasn't necessary. In my case, the joints were copper. My inspector did a great job of educating my buyer about the condition of the pipes and explained the realistic situation. In many situations, just being aware of the components of a home is very helpful.

[flowerlady9]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I've been doing more research on this and found that the failures are related to PB in connection with public water supply because of the interaction with flouride and chlorine that are added to that kind of water.

I'm on well water and have lived in the house for 16 years and the original owners were here for years before that. I've never had a problem.

I do understand the perception issue though. I might give them literature until I'm blue and they still might not care since they had the inspector from h*** and this is what he told them.

Estimates this morning.

Decisions, decisions.....

[VickiR]

Originally Posted by flowerlady9

Thanks everyone for the comments.

I've been doing more research on this and found that the failures are related to PB in connection with public water supply because of the interaction with flouride and chlorine that are added to that kind of water.

I'm on well water and have lived in the house for 16 years and the original owners were here for years before that. I've never had a problem.

I do understand the perception issue though. I might give them literature until I'm blue and they still might not care since they had the inspector from h*** and this is what he told them.

Estimates this morning.

Decisions, decisions.....

Read your contract, especially the repair section. A buyer may not have the right to walk away just because the pipes are not of the material he'd prefer unless the contract was written up that way. If the pipes are functioning, you would not have to replace them in NC.

We also have issues with masonite siding.

I keep a list of websites that explain all the pros and cons so that my buyers and my sellers are aware of these issues BEFORE we get to contract.

Vicki