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Our MLS expires in 2 weeks. Our listing agent is also representing the buyers.... HOWEVER she has let our SALES contract with her expire. She is now saying that IF the MLS expires while these people are still working on getting a mortgage, then she will have to cancel the offer and return the escrow they gave her. AND that if somewhere down the road they do get financing, then she is still due a commission as she showed them the house..... I might add that THEY called her after getting a flyer off the post out front AND she told them she could not show them the house for another 3 days....MEANWHILE they knocked on the door and my husband showed them the house !!!
My question is.... if a listing expires... does that really cancel ANY deal in the works ?
First off, there are two different things that you are talking about. One is the listing contract with your Realtor® and the other is the sales contract with the buyer. Both will have expiration dates on them. In Florida, the general extension form that was probably used and signed by your husband would have a spot for an actual date..not just 'three months' but an actual date. So while the original agreement would have expired on the 7th, the extension he signed may have been until the 28th. If she has not given you a copy of the signed extension, then call the office and ask for a copy...not from her, from the office.
If the date for the financing clause in the sales contract expires and the buyer requests a return of their escrow her broker will need to return it if they are holding it. If the title company is holding it then a release of contract and return of escrow will have to be signed by you and the buyer designating who the escrow deposit is returned to. If she really told you that she would have to return the escrow because the listing contract expired, she's incorrect. A call to her broker will clear all of that up. One has nothing to do with the other. She would still be getting a commission as long as the sales contract is in force, regardless of whether the listing contract expired or not. The deal started while she still had the listing agreement.
If the deal falls apart and the listing agreement expires, then a 'protection period' comes into play. Look at the listing agreement to see how long that is for. Agents fill it in differently...some will put 60 days, 90 days and I've seen them to 120 days. If a contract comes again with those same buyers within that time period, she's 'protected' for her listing commission, UNLESS you resign with another Realtor® for the listing. At that point, if she's still representing the buyers, she would only be entitled to the selling commission, not the listing commission.
Thank you everyone for your responses... Let me clear up a little bit of confusion.
The house for sale and Realtor are in Florida. My husband is there living in the home until it sells. I'm in Kentucky.
We signed a listing contract on July 1, 2007. The expiration date was January 8, 2008. I have a copy of that contract. The "protection period" on that contract was 180 Days.
My husband signed an extension to our original Listing with the agent in January. It was for a 3 month extension. I don't have a copy of that so I don't have the exact date. At this point it does not matter.... it's way past 3 months. As those months past we rarely heard anything from our Realtor. NOT EVEN when we sent her an email and told her we were going to be out of town moving for two weeks. The listing has our house number to call, because we have dogs in the house. ... so she has always been advised when we were going to be away so that she could change the contact arrangements during that time frame.
She NEVER contacted us at the time of expiration... .UNTIL these people called her to see the house. We never contacted her either, however we were contacting other Realtors and interviewing them for possible listing contracts. We halted those activities when she called us about these people.
She never gave us a reason as to why she could not show them the house. They called her on a Saturday and she said she could not show the home until TUESDAY.
She also has told my husband some mis-leading information about a financing program to get him to agree to buyers assistance.
They had 30 days to obtain financing and that date expires on 7/21.
Now she is telling my husband... and I quote directly from her email...
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]We have a couple of decisions to make within the next 2 weeks...first, the listing is due to expire on the 28th of the month and would need to be extended if we are to try and keep this buyer alive, and we can ask them to seek out other lenders to see if someone will give them a mortgage, but things are tighening up with the banking situations.....we would continue to seek out other buyers while listed too.
If you do not wish to continue the listing I would need to cancel the offer and return their escrow, however, if at a later date they did end up working things out and wanting to renegotiate a new contract we would still be due the commission, having introduced them to the listing.
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
From what some of you are saying... she does not HAVE to cancel the contract if we do not continue the listing. We DO however have an obligation to continue to work with these people.
My friend told me my listing expires on 8/7, NOT July 28th as she has stated.
YES, something DOES smell rotten in Denmark, or at least in EAST COAST FLORIDA.... I will look the statutes online and make calls to the office in an attempt to get clarification. We really do not want to sign another contract with this person, However we are willing to continue to work with these people until it's difinitive that they will not be able to buy the home.
Thanks again for your continued responses and support. Keep it coming !!!
The discrepency in expiration date is alarming. Are you absolutely certain another extention was not granted after the first? Are you certain the listing agreement does not provide for some form of automatic renewal?
Call the managing broker and get to the bottom of this.
In any event, this broker or title company appears to be holding earnest monies on your behalf and you are going to be challenged to say they were not the procuring cause. Chances are, if this deal comes together, you are on the hook for payment of the brokerage fee out of the proceeds of the sale.
I am not in Florida and don't know the local rules or customs. In my state escrow monies means there is a contract and price and terms have been agreed upon, subject to home inspection, attorney review and agreed upon contingencies, including but not limited to financing. Contingencies have expiration dates for performance. The status of the listing is reported in the MLS. In most cases, if there is a contract, the home cannot be shown to others. Contracts with home sale contingencies are the exception. This may or may not be the case in Florida.
No doubt that others with knowledge of Florida practices will be along with factual information.
I have been over the original contract with a fine tooth comb. There was nothing in there about automatic renewal. I don't know about the extension... as I don't have a copy of that.
This person IS listed as a broker. She works from a home office but IS affiliated with a local office of a VERY LARGE NATIONAL REAL ESTATE FIRM....( 3 letters / red house )
I have been over the original contract with a fine tooth comb. There was nothing in there about automatic renewal. I don't know about the extension... as I don't have a copy of that.
This person IS listed as a broker. She works from a home office but IS affiliated with a local office of a VERY LARGE NATIONAL REAL ESTATE FIRM....( 3 letters / red house )
Please get yourself on the phone with your agent's Managing Broker, now.
The first issue is finding out what documents exist to support that your home is listed with them. The Managing Broker should be able to fax to you all documents supporting their position, without hesitation.
I would not normally recommend this but you might also call the potential buyer to see if they are truly serious. The agent may be jerking their chain also.
Thank you everyone for your responses... Let me clear up a little bit of confusion.
The house for sale and Realtor are in Florida. My husband is there living in the home until it sells. I'm in Kentucky.
We signed a listing contract on July 1, 2007. The expiration date was January 8, 2008. I have a copy of that contract. The "protection period" on that contract was 180 Days.
My husband signed an extension to our original Listing with the agent in January. It was for a 3 month extension. I don't have a copy of that so I don't have the exact date. At this point it does not matter.... it's way past 3 months. As those months past we rarely heard anything from our Realtor. NOT EVEN when we sent her an email and told her we were going to be out of town moving for two weeks. The listing has our house number to call, because we have dogs in the house. ... so she has always been advised when we were going to be away so that she could change the contact arrangements during that time frame.
She NEVER contacted us at the time of expiration... .UNTIL these people called her to see the house. We never contacted her either, however we were contacting other Realtors and interviewing them for possible listing contracts. We halted those activities when she called us about these people.
She never gave us a reason as to why she could not show them the house. They called her on a Saturday and she said she could not show the home until TUESDAY.
She also has told my husband some mis-leading information about a financing program to get him to agree to buyers assistance.
They had 30 days to obtain financing and that date expires on 7/21.
Now she is telling my husband... and I quote directly from her email...
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2][SIZE=2]We have a couple of decisions to make within the next 2 weeks...first, the listing is due to expire on the 28th of the month and would need to be extended if we are to try and keep this buyer alive, and we can ask them to seek out other lenders to see if someone will give them a mortgage, but things are tighening up with the banking situations.....we would continue to seek out other buyers while listed too.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]If you do not wish to continue the listing I would need to cancel the offer and return their escrow, however, if at a later date they did end up working things out and wanting to renegotiate a new contract we would still be due the commission, having introduced them to the listing.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
From what some of you are saying... she does not HAVE to cancel the contract if we do not continue the listing. We DO however have an obligation to continue to work with these people.
My friend told me my listing expires on 8/7, NOT July 28th as she has stated.
YES, something DOES smell rotten in Denmark, or at least in EAST COAST FLORIDA.... I will look the statutes online and make calls to the office in an attempt to get clarification. We really do not want to sign another contract with this person, However we are willing to continue to work with these people until it's difinitive that they will not be able to buy the home.
Thanks again for your continued responses and support. Keep it coming !!!
So as of April 8th you have had no listing agreement with your real estate agent. Were you aware that they were still marketing for you? I think this might fall under implied agency relationships. I don't know what Florida rules are about that.
Out here if you did a 90 day extension, they would have needed to stop marketing on your behalf at that time. Out here they would legally have no longer been your representation at that time. Failing to provide a client a copy of a listing agreement is a BIG DEAL out here.
So your listing contract expires, but they continue to keep you on the MLS and you have little to no contact with the agent, but you didn't relist with someone else. At this point you are just a FSBO with an agent marketing you on the MLS out of the goodness of their heart.
Then...she gets an offer for a buyer, and you sign a document agreeing that she is your agency representation for the transaction? I think she is technically a transaction broker now??
In Oregon you can have agency representation without a listing agreement. I do it all of the time for consultation services. I offer transaction management for FSBO's. I don't know FL laws though and how this works there. When she brought in a buyer, did you sign a new listing agreement?
Otherwise this seems like you don't have an agreement to pay her commission at all at this point. She brought you a buyer after you no longer had an agreement for payment of services. Just because she extended the listing on the MLS does not mean that the contractual agreement was extended. If you have no contract, you have no contractual obligation to pay her. The 180 day protection period started at the beginning of April when your listing expired for buyers that she brought in DURING THE LISTING PERIOD.
So...as MAM suggested, call the principal broker ASAP and get copies of the listing agreement. Maybe your hubby signed and extension or sent her an email telling her to extend?
I am completely confused by the events you describe here. This agent appears to be working for you for free.
I have been over the original contract with a fine tooth comb. There was nothing in there about automatic renewal. I don't know about the extension... as I don't have a copy of that.
This person IS listed as a broker. She works from a home office but IS affiliated with a local office of a VERY LARGE NATIONAL REAL ESTATE FIRM....( 3 letters / red house )
Ok. First off, there is no automatic extension for a contract in Florida. It's illegal. So, that's cleared up.
What I want you to do is call the local board of Realtors®. Get the number of the internet by googling "(whatever county) Realtor Association". There is no implied contract in the state of Florida. Either she's got a piece of paper extending the contract with your signatures on it or she doesn't. Now, getting the listing into the mls happens one of two ways. Either there is an admin or someone authorized to enter the listings or the agent does it themselves. Either one can make a mistake or can intentionally fiddle with the dates. From what you are saying, it appears she's a one man show, so she put it in herself. I'm assuming your 'friend' is a Realtor® or someone in a real estate office that has access to the information regarding expiration dates in the mls. What she's telling you is that in the system (which can be fiddled with or a mistake) is showing it's due to expire on a particular date.
Call the local association, explain the situation, that you believe you only extended the listing for 3 months, that's passed, you've asked for a copy of the extension but have not been able to get it. Trust me, they'll get a copy to you and clarify the situation.
Now, on to the contract. No. She does not have to cancel the contract. As a matter of fact, she's not a party to the contract. Only you or the buyer can ask for a cancellation and release of escrow. That is NOT in her control at all, what so ever. If the listing contract actually expired, and she did not have a compensation agreement signed, then as has been stated, you owe her nadda as far as a commission. If the contract actually expired then the protection period has also expired, as has been pointed out also.
I want you to call the title company that is handling the deal. They are able to call the mortgage company and get the status of the financing for these people. If the period for receiving approval for their financing is up and they can not get financing they have every right to request a return of their deposit. If the broker is holding the deposit, she can freely return it. If the title company is holding it they will require a form to be filled out (or should).
*IF* you and the buyer would like to extend the contract, I strongly urge you to have them qualified by a mortgage broker of your choice...one you know knows what they are doing BEFORE you sign the extension.
By the way...she's *required* to give you a copy of the extension and anything else you signed. She's also *required* to treat you fairly and honestly. If she's doing something that isn't honest and fair (which telling you either you sign an extension of the listing contract or I'll have to cancel this contract is tantamount to coercion), you have every right to file a formal complaint with the Realtor® association.
I'm not an attorney, I'm not giving legal advise, I'm just giving you the benefit of my experience.
Thank you very much Palmcoasting !! I've always found your responses to be respectful and clear. Experience is a great teacher !
My husband sent her an email last night asking for a copy of the contract. When he gets home, if he does not have a response from her, he will be calling other resources to get one tomorrow. Unfortunately he can't read his email from work so it has to wait until tomorrow.
Sounds good. And, if it gets to that point and you need a mortgage broker who knows what they are doing to qualify the buyer, pm me and I'll give you the name and number.
He knows ALL the programs available, what they do/don't require, what will/won't get through. His specialty is 'special' circumstances.
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