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Old 04-25-2009, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
8,336 posts, read 16,354,176 times
Reputation: 5485

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post
How? She asked for a referral fee. He doesn't have to give her one. She took no options away from him.
She had the agent work prior to asking then asked to take 25% away. After having some time for this to digest I agree with Mike J's earlier post. No referral fee, if the agent pushes or threatens to cancel the transaction I report her to the commission and let them handle it. The fact is she didn't disclose up front, let the agent do work under the assumption she would be compensated the full amount, and then took it away. Had she up front stated she would work with the agent but expected a referral, then I'd agree with you fancy.

In further support, the agent is trying to cut the brokerage out on the referral.

Of course this is all the more reason to have a buyer agency signed, although I know it's not the norm in CA.
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Old 04-25-2009, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Mountain Ranch, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
6,900 posts, read 17,508,959 times
Reputation: 6230
Wow thanks for the feedback everyone! Thanks Mike J for quoting Standards of Practice 3.7, if nothing else that's what's really the crux of the matter.

The daughter of the client called me back and left a voicemail that said, "our company has 13 offices and 600 agents (According to the DRE it's 435, but I digress) and we always do these referral fees agent to agent, because he is too busy." (An absolutely clear violation of California Real Estate Law) "I talked to him and he says you haven't left any messages for him, his cell number is XXX-XXXX (Twice I asked for the broker and got the head financial guys phone extension) I left one message for the broker and he has yet to reply.

So aside from the ethics violation and the prompting to violate the law from the daughter, I guess I have no problem with the situation.
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Old 04-25-2009, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
28,435 posts, read 50,578,419 times
Reputation: 26609
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMenscha View Post
Wow thanks for the feedback everyone! Thanks Mike J for quoting Standards of Practice 3.7, if nothing else that's what's really the crux of the matter.

The daughter of the client called me back and left a voicemail that said, "our company has 13 offices and 600 agents (According to the DRE it's 435, but I digress) and we always do these referral fees agent to agent, because he is too busy." (An absolutely clear violation of California Real Estate Law) "I talked to him and he says you haven't left any messages for him, his cell number is XXX-XXXX (Twice I asked for the broker and got the head financial guys phone extension) I left one message for the broker and he has yet to reply.

So aside from the ethics violation and the prompting to violate the law from the daughter, I guess I have no problem with the situation.
Whilst slopping around in the knee-deep toejam, you may even have the opportunity to slip it to her in cash, off the HUD1.

I wonder if they do THAT all the time too, since the broker is not engaged in the business.

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Old 04-25-2009, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Mountain Ranch, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
6,900 posts, read 17,508,959 times
Reputation: 6230
OH yeah, I might as well violate RESPA too while I'm at it. LOL Thanks for the laugh Mike
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Old 04-25-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,202 posts, read 29,451,604 times
Reputation: 10731
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Whilst slopping around in the knee-deep toejam, you may even have the opportunity to slip it to her in cash, off the HUD1.

I wonder if they do THAT all the time too, since the broker is not engaged in the business.

She'd like it in pennies please. Glass jars preferred...better for the environment, ya know.
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Old 04-25-2009, 09:23 PM
 
982 posts, read 723,516 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
She had the agent work prior to asking then asked to take 25% away. After having some time for this to digest I agree with Mike J's earlier post. No referral fee, if the agent pushes or threatens to cancel the transaction I report her to the commission and let them handle it. The fact is she didn't disclose up front, let the agent do work under the assumption she would be compensated the full amount, and then took it away. Had she up front stated she would work with the agent but expected a referral, then I'd agree with you fancy.

In further support, the agent is trying to cut the brokerage out on the referral.

Of course this is all the more reason to have a buyer agency signed, although I know it's not the norm in CA.
What did she take away? I thought she merely asked?????
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Old 04-26-2009, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Palm Coast, Fl
2,249 posts, read 7,612,325 times
Reputation: 993
lol... when/if you do talk to him you might inquire as to why he's never taught his licensees to get commission/referal agreements in writing before bringing in an offer or a client in tow. What a shame...too successful/large to instruct licensees properly.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
8,336 posts, read 16,354,176 times
Reputation: 5485
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post
What did she take away? I thought she merely asked?????
She took away the agents time prior to asking if she would work for 25% less. If you hired a fencer to build a fence, and they went and got all the lumber to the site, then you said, oh I'm a fencer too. I can build it myself but if you want to do it for 75% of your normal fee I'll let you do it.

Now, the fencer can refuse, but they've already brought all the materials to the yard and wasted a day doing it. They can choose to build the fence for 75% or eat the wasted day and refuse the job.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:36 PM
 
982 posts, read 723,516 times
Reputation: 249
Okay, Brandon, I get what you're saying. I really do. But the fencer scenario requires that the fencer went and "bought" and paid money for materials. This agent did not.

A better analogy would be: You call fencers for estimates. A fencer comes out, he spends some time talking to you. He drives around the neighborhood and looks at others' fences. He goes to Home Depot and he prices the fencing materials. He comes back to you and gives you his price and you say, I'm pretty good at fencing. I can help you with this fence and make your job easier if you'll take 25% off your price. The fencer has the option to say no and you have the option to say "Okay, then I won't use you," or you have the option to say, "Okay, it was worth a try," and go forward on the fence.

That is not unethical or dishonest.

Remember, commissions are all negotiable.
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Old 04-26-2009, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,089 posts, read 34,191,116 times
Reputation: 18897
I still say it all comes down to a matter of ethics. If you deliberately withhold information until you have cost someone time and money at what they do on their job (I had missed earlier that this was rural property, which makes it even more egregious), knowing that that information means that you'll be holding them over a barrel with the choice of eating the time and money they've spent already or taking the job at a discount, that's not ethical by most common standards.

It's not ethical when a potential client does it, and it's even less ethical when an agent, who should know the rules, does it.

This really isn't a matter of "well, you wouldn't do it and I wouldn't do it, but that doesn't mean it's wrong for this other agent to do it". If you wouldn't do it and I wouldn't do it, precisely why wouldn't you do it? (I know why I wouldn't do it and I suspect most everyone else here does by now, after all this discussion. )
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