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Old 04-26-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
19,089 posts, read 34,191,116 times
Reputation: 18897

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post
And it also does not specify WHEN that disclosure must be made. Whether it is within the first second, minute, hour, day...

If it's so clear, why not report her and see how clear the board thinks it is?
I believe that was an option that was previously discussed.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
8,336 posts, read 16,354,176 times
Reputation: 5485
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post
Okay, Brandon, I get what you're saying. I really do. But the fencer scenario requires that the fencer went and "bought" and paid money for materials. This agent did not.
I bought and paid for the computer to access MLS. I bought and paid for MLS access. I bought and paid for the paper and ink it was printed on. I bought and paid for the gas to drive the person around. I bought and paid for my keypad to get into homes. I bought and paid for a lunch possibly. And most dearly of all, I bought and paid for it with my time. So you see, we at point already have a lot invested to find out it's going to cost 25% of the pay. And that's why you're wrong.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:20 PM
 
982 posts, read 723,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
If in your world the requirement to disclose comes only at the time that an offer is written, then the agent would not need to disclose that they were an agent for two years, in my scenario based on actual fact.

As for what defines first contact, I don't have to worry about what it means "in my world" because, being a former legal assistant and kind of persnickety about such things (you say you were a licensed legal assistant so you should understand that) and not wanting to put myself and my broker in a position of being sued, I got a definition of it when I started practicing. Plus, of course, it was in my legal classes originally when I took them for my license and in the recent update I took.
Where did I ever say that disclosure ONLY needs to be made before an offer? What I said was that she disclosed on the FIRST day BEFORE an offer was made.

Moderator cut: personal - off topic

You are correct that I have a legal background, more than 20 years. Which is why I know that EVERY sentence in every contract is dependent upon scrutiny and interpretation. And just b/c you interpret it one way does not make it so.

Again, I'd submit that you would have a hard time convincing anyone other than another realtor that your narrow view of "first contact" is legally or ethically binding.

Last edited by Marka; 04-27-2009 at 01:38 AM..
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:21 PM
 
982 posts, read 723,516 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
I believe that was an option that was previously discussed.
I will be interested to see how it plays out.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:23 PM
 
982 posts, read 723,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
I bought and paid for the computer to access MLS. I bought and paid for MLS access. I bought and paid for the paper and ink it was printed on. I bought and paid for the gas to drive the person around. I bought and paid for my keypad to get into homes. I bought and paid for a lunch possibly. And most dearly of all, I bought and paid for it with my time. So you see, we at point already have a lot invested to find out it's going to cost 25% of the pay. And that's why you're wrong.
That is the cost of doing business with every client, not just this one. You did not buy and invest all that into this one client. Your fencer scenario implies that the fencer bought lumber FOR THIS JOB.

Apples and oranges.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
8,336 posts, read 16,354,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post
And it also does not specify WHEN that disclosure must be made. Whether it is within the first second, minute, hour, day...

If it's so clear, why not report her and see how clear the board thinks it is?
I addressed that at the top of the first page so reread it. Secondly, it matters none at all what you think is first contact. It matters a lot what the state LLR and NAR consider first contact. You can choose to act how you will and I'll choose to follow state LLR laws and NAR code of ethics.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
28,435 posts, read 50,578,419 times
Reputation: 26609
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post
And it also does not specify WHEN that disclosure must be made. Whether it is within the first second, minute, hour, day...

If it's so clear, why not report her and see how clear the board thinks it is?
"When seeking information..."

"...When seeking..."
Not "..After receiving..."

I will leave the reporting, or non-reporting up to the OP, whose office was possibly wronged.
He may have bigger fish to fry in this case, considering that two members of the other firm have reported routine illegal activity by the other firm.

Watching THAT unfold might be much more entertaining, particularly if it runs into RESPA.
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
8,336 posts, read 16,354,176 times
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LLR says "At first contact" and defines it as described in the other posts so don't worry about the NAR wording.

Michael Vick thought it was alright to host dog fights. The officers that arrested him and jury that found him guilty did not agree. In Vick's world he was not acting unethical but his world was not the written law. He was wrong although he didn't think so and so are you.

Moderator cut: personal - off topic

Last edited by Marka; 04-27-2009 at 01:40 AM..
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Old 04-26-2009, 01:39 PM
 
982 posts, read 723,516 times
Reputation: 249
Dog fighting is against the law and it's pretty specific.

Moderator cut: personal - off topic

Last edited by Marka; 04-27-2009 at 01:34 AM..
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Old 04-26-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
28,435 posts, read 50,578,419 times
Reputation: 26609
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants View Post

As to the assertion "when seeking information," being the trigger for when to disclose, that is the best argument I've seen yet. But my point is and always has been that that is vague and ambiguous. Perhaps the problems lie in the fact that your oh-so-holy NAR needs to be more specific and say "Immediately upon contact, before you even state your name, you must say, "I am a realtor. I am Ms. Fancy. I am seeking information." Otherwise, you have this scenario. People interpreting it different ways.
Moderator cut: personal - off topic

He is a Realtor, and it is clear to him.
And I am a Realtor and it is clear to me that I should introduce myself as a Realtor. I have a broker-in-charge who is quite capable of and willing to clarify that point should I happen to misplace a few brain cells that anchor my common sense.

If the doofus that popped into his office is a Realtor without ability to easily understand that Standard of Practice 3-7 requires disclosing her status at the get-go, and is also routinely pocketing referral commissions on the side without going through her broker, no amount of clarity in ethics will ever suffice for her.

Last edited by Marka; 04-27-2009 at 01:41 AM..
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