Home inspections (foreclosed, dual agency, attorney, offer)

[Rakin]

There have been several times we have told the buyers agent to not send us the report. Inspections can vary in what they say and if we have it in our possession we would have to disclose something that may not really be a problem.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Rakin

There have been several times we have told the buyers agent to not send us the report. Inspections can vary in what they say and if we have it in our possession we would have to disclose something that may not really be a problem.

This is true. But if the buyer's agent is using a claim of mold in the house as a negotiating ploy, then I want to see that part of the inspection that indicates it (not necessarily the whole thing), AND I want the no-doubt-recommended-by-the-inspector inspection by a licensed professional who deals with mold. The "well, we'll just tell them this and then they'll HAVE to disclose to a buyer in future and we'll have them over a barrel" routine doesn't fly. If nothing else, we need to get estimates in order to know how much of a problem it really is from a dollar standpoint, just like with a roof, an AC system, or anything else the inspector thinks we should talk to a licensed professional about.

[f_m]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

roof electrical and plumping termite are biggies. better posts than mine up above. but i posted to say best use of a buyers money i can imagine, inspection.
i dont want the seller or any involved unknown agent to recommend an inspector.
no brother in law deals please. no no no.

Yeah, I ended up with general inspector, electrician, plumber, roofer, general contractor, foundation repair person to see what I was dealing with from the initial general inspection list. Termite inspection done by buyer (this seems to be standard here). I was lucky to get info from a previous inspection and pre-sale inspection for comparison. However, my inspector came up with the most issues that needed to be dealt with, lucky for me.

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Define "in due course" holder, will you, please? This isn't a term I'm familiar with.

that is the legal term for one who owns a house as a result of something other than buying it as a residence. Examples would be foreclosures, deed in lieu, Relocation services.

The Seller's Disclosure that we have here has a section that asks specifically about inspections within the past few years, and if the Seller is aware of one and has a copy, they are to attach it.

In general lenders and such are exempted from providing a Seller's Disclosure. If you don't have to provide it you don't have to comply with its provisions.

I'm of the "disclose, disclose, disclose - and then disclose some more" point of view, myself (legal assistant background), but that means disclose what you know, not what is rumored. And until we have a statement from someone who is qualified to say that "X" is a problem, that's just what the buyer's agent's statement (and I include myself in this when I'm a buyer's agent) is - rumor. Hearsay. "Your Honor, the agent for the previous prospective buyer (bound by law to get the best possible deal for the buyer) told me during negotiations that he thought that the house had mold. However, he provided no evidence in the way of an inspection report by a licensed professional to substantiate this.

"

I don't tell you "I think it has mold". I tell you "it has mold". At that point you are on notice. If we are not at contract there is no requirement that I tell you how or why I believe that to be true. You can discount it but you will get killed in court when the buyer presents my email. Your only defense is that it does not have mold. And, if it does, you are dead. In fact I was in the house with a licensed contractor and we examined and photographed clear cut water damage and what was likely mold. If forced to I would argue that I am, in fact, an expert and can identify obvious water damage and likely mold. And you might well lose on the issue. "Expert" is a funny term. When I was about four years in the business I was accepted by a court as an expert on RE Agent procedures simply because I had done 40 and had an academic background suitable for understanding what I was doing. YMMV

Now, if you have an inspection report that says that there is mold, that's another matter - simply produce that part of the inspection report, we'll get a professional licensed to diagnose mold (what kind, etc. - and I've never seen a regular inspection report that would flat out say that there's a mold problem, they usually say, as with roofs and AC systems, that there MIGHT be a problem and that it should be diagnosed by a licensed professional lin that area) and give an estimate for remediation, if such is necessary, and then move forward with negotiations. But you, yourself, just telling me that as part of negotiations, in an attempt to bully my seller into giving your client more money? Don't think so.

I did not say there might be...I said there was. You can sue me for saying it if I am wrong. But I don't need to hedge my words. And, if it is not there, it won't come up as an issue will it?

[TexasHorseLady]

that is the legal term for one who owns a house as a result of something other than buying it as a residence. Examples would be foreclosures, deed in lieu, Relocation services.

Ah. Well, in that case, no, they don't have to provide a seller's disclosure because they don't know anything about the property. (Though I do handle some relocation through a relocation service that provides the seller's disclosure as provided to them by the relocatee, but they have no liability for it.)

It was my impression that we were speaking of the normal seller, not a corporate one. I'll go back and read your posts to see where I misread to get that impression.

I don't tell you "I think it has mold". I tell you "it has mold". At that point you are on notice. If we are not at contract there is no requirement that I tell you how or why I believe that to be true. You can discount it but you will get killed in court when the buyer presents my email. Your only defense is that it does not have mold. And, if it does, you are dead. In fact I was in the house with a licensed contractor and we examined and photographed clear cut water damage and what was likely mold. If forced to I would argue that I am, in fact, an expert and can identify obvious water damage and likely mold. And you might well lose on the issue. "Expert" is a funny term. When I was about four years in the business I was accepted by a court as an expert on RE Agent procedures simply because I had done 40 and had an academic background suitable for understanding what I was doing. YMMV

Again, a different scenario than the one that was presented as I saw it from what you said (and, again, I'll go back and re-read to see if you presented any of this information at the time in the posts I responded to - it will be educational, if nothing else). If you are, indeed, a professional licensed to identify mold damage (or roof damage, or whatever), and you present that certification at the time that you are "putting me on notice", or you present the report of the licensed contractor who you were in the house with, there's no problem at all, because you will be complying with what I would advise my client to require in order to go forward with negotiations - evidence that someone trained and licensed to determine the extent of the damage and required treatment had diagnosed mold. I would be remiss in my responsibility to my client if I told them, "Well, the buyer's agent says and you should turn belly up and give them what they want on his say-so" without such verification, don't you think, if you're an expert in agent procedure?

And you had done 40 what? Years? In what capacity?

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by FrozenAngel

I think that is really a good thing. It helps keep people honest plus why not get any issue out up front so not to waste anyones time? The people who were buying my house were planning to convert my brand new oil furnace over to gas and I knew that meant they had to replace the whole thing! These new furnaces no longer allow a simple conversion. My realtor said, "well I have no intentions of telling them that"! Geezzz, that didn't feel right to me. I didn't see what the issue was ... gas is going up too!

Was she representing you or the buyer?

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by olecapt

Not true. An "in due course" holder is under no obligation to disclose something uncovered in an inspection...and in fact they won't.

The listing agent is however in a much more difficult spot. He is required to disclose any material fact.

It is interesting to tell the listing agent there is mold in a house. Puts them into a very difficult situation. Particularly fun if your client is willing to buy the home with the mold.

Just curious here..... if the "in due course" holder is served with an inspection report and the deal falls apart, are they under any obligation to disclose knowledge, going forward?

[middle-aged mom]

Originally Posted by olecapt

The listing agent is however in a much more difficult spot. He is required to disclose any material fact.

It is interesting to tell the listing agent there is mold in a house. Puts them into a very difficult situation. Particularly fun if your client is willing to buy the home with the mold.

The business risks of agency are endless. If corporations faced the same risks as independent contractors status agents do, the cost of brokerage would be in multiples of what it is, anywhere, anytime.

[FrozenAngel]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Was she representing you or the buyer?

She was a dual agent for us both.

[FrozenAngel]

Originally Posted by middle-aged mom

Just curious here..... if the "in due course" holder is served with an inspection report and the deal falls apart, are they under any obligation to disclose knowledge, going forward?

See, now this is why they have to have all these rules. Now that my house has had an inspection, I feel morally obligated to tell the next buyer whether my agent wanted to or not. It's just the right thing to do. It doesn't matter if there is a legal obligation. And if I am worried that these problems are going to be an issue ... than I should fix them before there is another offer, yes?