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Well, I think my real point is that the selling agent merely puts the listing into the MLS and then goes back out on the golf course until (and if) they get an interested buyer. And for that I'm giving him $10,000-$20,000 of my hard earned money and sweat equity??? I do agree that buyer's agents typically do a WHOLE lot more than the listing agent does and believe that the entire compensation system is way out of whack. That is why I think that the fees should be on a sliding scale based upon many different factors. Having the homeowner who refuses to go with your suggested sales price and then holds out for a year waiting for an unrealistic price pay the same percentage of commission as the one who takes your advice and then sells the place overnight is terribly unfair to the seller. Also- the buyer who takes you to 100 places before they choose a home still pays nothing (although the chosen seller will surely pay for it in the buyer's agent's flat refusal to deal as a result!) while the guy who calls you to show him the listing he found on the internet also makes you the same amount of money! It's just ridiculous. It's all out of whack-- and bottom line-- it's the seller who always pays, and suffers. I think there should be seller's concession that he pays to whomever buys the property. How the buyer and his agent agree to divvy that up should be between them. Same way it happens in most other sales situations. I have a product to sell. This is how much I will sell this product to you for. If you need help getting my product then how you choose to compensate those who help get it into your hot little hands is strictly between you and them. I should not lose money based upon your needs/neediness.
And as far as the MLS monopoly- I don't like the exclusivity of it. Why is there only one major listing source that only realtors can list on? Why can't I list my own property---at my own cost!---and then offer buyer's agents a commission? There are some listing service companies who will do this for you for a reasonable fee- but the realtors in the town I lived in before have completely blocked that from happening there. There are no such companies one can hire in that county. Monopoly. Shut out. Not allowing non-realtors to utilize the service----exclusionary. And all of this monopolizing and game playing with MY property and MY MONEY! I have to wonder how this is even legal? What if everything people sold or traded was handled in the same manner in this country? Can you imagine HAVING to buy your car through the only game in town and at their commission levels because it was not even allowed that individual sellers advertise their vehicle in the top sales magazine in the country? And any attempts to start up another magazine where ALL were welcome were nipped in the bud? And so on and so on.... Craziness. And yet-- only in real estate-- the highest ticket item most people will ever buy, or sell. Why is this? How did this come to be? Maybe the word monopoly is not right to describe it. It is really more of a cartel... IMO- wrong- no matter what you call it.
Another good post.
I too am tired of all the whine about commissions as no one is forced to pay for anything they don't want. If someone wants to work in commissioned sales, that is their choice and they can pay their own expenses. The sellers are the ones who paid the taxes, mortgage, and upkeep every month so they should not have to be manipulated into giving away their profits beyond a reasonable amount; tens of thousand of dollars is not reasonable for filling out preprinted forms. Lawyers are the only ones qualified to provide legal advice regarding contract law, rights, and obligations. Selling a home is like trying to deal with a union worker claiming only they can do the job and you will pay for it, and pay for it.
Absolutely. Not ALL realtors, mind you- but the one I had (and many, many more I have heard of) certainly did. Although a broker of his own agency, he ended up being "semi-retired" and only worked on a part-time basis. He couldn't have cared less when, or if, any listing he had sold. He was, as someone else mentioned- just playing the odds since he had nothing to much to lose. List dozens of houses at a minimal cost- sell just one of those- costs covered and then some...
I too am tired of all the whine about commissions as no one is forced to pay for anything they don't want. If someone wants to work in commissioned sales, that is their choice and they can pay their own expenses. The sellers are the ones who paid the taxes, mortgage, and upkeep every month so they should not have to be manipulated into giving away their profits beyond a reasonable amount; tens of thousand of dollars is not reasonable for filling out preprinted forms. Lawyers are the only ones qualified to provide legal advice regarding contract law, rights, and obligations. Selling a home is like trying to deal with a union worker claiming only they can do the job and you will pay for it, and pay for it.
I too am tired of all the whine about commissions as no one is forced to pay for anything they don't want. If someone wants to work in commissioned sales, that is their choice and they can pay their own expenses. The sellers are the ones who paid the taxes, mortgage, and upkeep every month so they should not have to be manipulated into giving away their profits beyond a reasonable amount; tens of thousand of dollars is not reasonable for filling out preprinted forms. Lawyers are the only ones qualified to provide legal advice regarding contract law, rights, and obligations. Selling a home is like trying to deal with a union worker claiming only they can do the job and you will pay for it, and pay for it.
You don't have to hire an agent. No one does. People aren't manipulated into giving away their profits. They make a choice to do so. If you lack the skills to stand up for yourself and say "Sorry, that's too much, I'm not paying that." That isn't the real estate agent's problem. That is yours.
Well, I think my real point is that the selling agent merely puts the listing into the MLS and then goes back out on the golf course until (and if) they get an interested buyer. And for that I'm giving him $10,000-$20,000 of my hard earned money and sweat equity??? I do agree that buyer's agents typically do a WHOLE lot more than the listing agent does and believe that the entire compensation system is way out of whack. That is why I think that the fees should be on a sliding scale based upon many different factors. Having the homeowner who refuses to go with your suggested sales price and then holds out for a year waiting for an unrealistic price pay the same percentage of commission as the one who takes your advice and then sells the place overnight is terribly unfair to the seller. Also- the buyer who takes you to 100 places before they choose a home still pays nothing (although the chosen seller will surely pay for it in the buyer's agent's flat refusal to deal as a result!) while the guy who calls you to show him the listing he found on the internet also makes you the same amount of money! It's just ridiculous. It's all out of whack-- and bottom line-- it's the seller who always pays, and suffers. I think there should be seller's concession that he pays to whomever buys the property. How the buyer and his agent agree to divvy that up should be between them. Same way it happens in most other sales situations. I have a product to sell. This is how much I will sell this product to you for. If you need help getting my product then how you choose to compensate those who help get it into your hot little hands is strictly between you and them. I should not lose money based upon your needs/neediness.
And as far as the MLS monopoly- I don't like the exclusivity of it. Why is there only one major listing source that only realtors can list on? Why can't I list my own property---at my own cost!---and then offer buyer's agents a commission? There are some listing service companies who will do this for you for a reasonable fee- but the realtors in the town I lived in before have completely blocked that from happening there. There are no such companies one can hire in that county. Monopoly. Shut out. Not allowing non-realtors to utilize the service----exclusionary. And all of this monopolizing and game playing with MY property and MY MONEY! I have to wonder how this is even legal? What if everything people sold or traded was handled in the same manner in this country? Can you imagine HAVING to buy your car through the only game in town and at their commission levels because it was not even allowed that individual sellers advertise their vehicle in the top sales magazine in the country? And any attempts to start up another magazine where ALL were welcome were nipped in the bud? And so on and so on.... Craziness. And yet-- only in real estate-- the highest ticket item most people will ever buy, or sell. Why is this? How did this come to be? Maybe the word monopoly is not right to describe it. It is really more of a cartel... IMO- wrong- no matter what you call it.
They won't allow just random people on the MLS because it has information like when sellers are on vacation and such on there. Agents, at least in my state, have to do a criminal background check. What a gig for a thief to get MLS access and find out which homes are for sale where the seller has moved on but left furniture behind, which clients are elderly or hard of hearing, or when they are on vacation or to set up showing times for a block and then steal things. We don't need to make it easier for them.
Zillow is a powerhouse and allows FSBOs to upload listing directly into their database. There are other options beside the MLS these days. In fact, I would suggest that Zilow has diluted the power of the MLS because it is national and allows agent and non-agent listings to be on there.
As for the other issue, the DOJ had a settlement with NAR over this exact issue. I think there was one holdout in one state that ended up in a lawsuit but I think all other MLS's that didn't allow limited representation listings caved due to the threat of an anti-trust lawsuit. The DOJ was all over the practice that you are describing and still is. They are going after any MLS's that haven't changed this practice.
Well, I think my real point is that the selling agent merely puts the listing into the MLS and then goes back out on the golf course until (and if) they get an interested buyer. And for that I'm giving him $10,000-$20,000 of my hard earned money and sweat equity??? I do agree that buyer's agents typically do a WHOLE lot more than the listing agent does and believe that the entire compensation system is way out of whack. That is why I think that the fees should be on a sliding scale based upon many different factors. Having the homeowner who refuses to go with your suggested sales price and then holds out for a year waiting for an unrealistic price pay the same percentage of commission as the one who takes your advice and then sells the place overnight is terribly unfair to the seller. Also- the buyer who takes you to 100 places before they choose a home still pays nothing (although the chosen seller will surely pay for it in the buyer's agent's flat refusal to deal as a result!) while the guy who calls you to show him the listing he found on the internet also makes you the same amount of money! It's just ridiculous. It's all out of whack-- and bottom line-- it's the seller who always pays, and suffers. I think there should be seller's concession that he pays to whomever buys the property. How the buyer and his agent agree to divvy that up should be between them. Same way it happens in most other sales situations. I have a product to sell. This is how much I will sell this product to you for. If you need help getting my product then how you choose to compensate those who help get it into your hot little hands is strictly between you and them. I should not lose money based upon your needs/neediness.
And as far as the MLS monopoly- I don't like the exclusivity of it. Why is there only one major listing source that only realtors can list on? Why can't I list my own property---at my own cost!---and then offer buyer's agents a commission? There are some listing service companies who will do this for you for a reasonable fee- but the realtors in the town I lived in before have completely blocked that from happening there. There are no such companies one can hire in that county. Monopoly. Shut out. Not allowing non-realtors to utilize the service----exclusionary. And all of this monopolizing and game playing with MY property and MY MONEY! I have to wonder how this is even legal? What if everything people sold or traded was handled in the same manner in this country? Can you imagine HAVING to buy your car through the only game in town and at their commission levels because it was not even allowed that individual sellers advertise their vehicle in the top sales magazine in the country? And any attempts to start up another magazine where ALL were welcome were nipped in the bud? And so on and so on.... Craziness. And yet-- only in real estate-- the highest ticket item most people will ever buy, or sell. Why is this? How did this come to be? Maybe the word monopoly is not right to describe it. It is really more of a cartel... IMO- wrong- no matter what you call it.
Your sliding scale idea is what is whacked. So, let me get this straight. If I take an over priced listing I can get paid 3%, which by the way I will never get anyhow, because the house won't sell because it's over priced.
If they are very reasonably priced then I get what? half a percent? I would only ever get paid on the lower end because over priced houses do not sell. It is one reason I do not take over priced listings and if your way ever becomes the way of this business I will quit and do something else.
You don't have to hire an agent. No one does. People aren't manipulated into giving away their profits. They make a choice to do so. If you lack the skills to stand up for yourself and say That isn't the real estate agent's problem. That is yours.
And yet essentially you all band together and keep the "standard" commission rates at 6%. When they are less--- you refuse to show those listings. I know that you do. Do not even TRY to argue or defend that. You are not legally supposed to shut out those listings, and yet- you do. This is pretty common knowledge to anyone in the business or who buys and sells real estate regularly. And if one does "stand up for [himself]" and says, "Sorry, that's too much, I'm not paying that," it really IS their problem alright---the problem being- how to list your own property on the MLS and then get realtors to honor the laws regarding offering and showing ALL listings without bias that meet their clients needs....
For those so against the current model, why do you think someone hasn't come up with something else? Surely there must be some smart people out there who would see it as a good business idea. Assuming those complaining rerpresent a larger group why wouldn't a RE broker move to this "sliding scale" or some other form of compensation? They could get all the business of those unhappy with the current system.
The exact details of how the listing service companies were blocked from being able to do business in my previous county- I do not know- but that is what I myself was told by several nationwide listing companies. The county is Cambria in Pennsylvania if you would like to check into it yourself. Maybe if I knew how some of these things were allowed to happen- I could actually do something about it instead of just venting on an online forum... but alas- at this point- I do not.
For those so against the current model, why do you think someone hasn't come up with something else? Surely there must be some smart people out there who would see it as a good business idea. Assuming those complaining rerpresent a larger group why wouldn't a RE broker move to this "sliding scale" or some other form of compensation? They could get all the business of those unhappy with the current system.
Because they would be shut out by the realtors who like making huge profits off of other people's assets, of course. For such a business model to work- there would need to be a large united group of realtors who just did the right/fair thing simply because it was the right thing. This might happen in Xanadu, but never here in the real world.
P.S. And show me the raised hands of all home sellers who did NOT think that their agents were overpaid through the commissions they were forced to pay in order to get their home sold... I really am not speaking for only myself here, I assure you.
Last edited by js1mom; 11-11-2011 at 02:28 PM..
Reason: P.S.
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