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Old 11-03-2012, 04:26 PM
 
Location: downtown Sarasota
4,617 posts, read 12,066,249 times
Reputation: 1942

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[quote=IC_deLight;26734283]Yeah, really.

"property management"? Did the homeowner that is the target of your letter ask you to manage THEIR property? You don't work in property management. You work in HOA management - and your targets are the involuntary members of the HOA corporation.
The HOA's BOD choose the property management company. Any homeowner who buys into a HOA should be aware that they are buying into a community which has a management company to take care of common areas such as community pools, lawn care, roads etc...Why would you think it was the management company "targeting" members of the HOA? It is the Board of Directors who govern the community, not the management company.

The "common area" of a condo might be truly owned in common. However, referring to HOA-property as "common property" is a complete misnomer. It isn't common area.
Like I said above, common areas in a HOA would be pool, tennis courts, roads, possibly landscaping...

Yeah, the management companies and boards seem to like to target children, flags, veterans, and individuals with disabilities. Happens over and over and over again like clockwork. But the management company is more than happy to recommend the very "rules" they claim they are "enforcing". Blind obedience - what a quality.
Management companies do not recommend the rules which the Rules & Regulation Committees come up with; rules and regulations come from the community's Condo docs and are voted upon in BOD meetings.

Speaking generically, people don't like you or your company. They particularly do not like to receive claims of "violation" alleged by anonymous busybodies sent in form letters from "management companies". There is not even a debate - you admitted this by your comment.
Again, the property management company only sends violations when the Rules & Regulations Committee requests this service.

If you are getting paid then the perhaps the HOA corp should be forced to pay the people targeted by this process to respond. You see no problems with drawing residents into a process like this. You are not a judge or a court and neither are your employers. "Fining" and "notices of violation" by HOAs should be outlawed. You have a beef? Tell your employer to take it to court. Last time I looked interpretation of restrictive covenants was deemed the practice of law. Are you licensed to practice law? Is your employer? Maybe you should be prosecuted for the unauthorized practice of law.

Violations and fines are not set up by the property management firm; violations and fines are set up by the Board of Directors.

....meaning you could make more money doing something else?

Management companies tend to charge $$ for each letter sent out - hence the incentive to flood the subdivision with accusations of "violations". In addition many management companies have tying arrangements between the insurance they have recommended to their clients and the ongoing employment of the management company. Once the HOA has signed on to the management company recommended insurance, there is an incentive for the management company to provoke a lawsuit. At that point the HOA cannot fire the management company without losing its insurance and it can't get coverage elsewhere while the litigation is pending.
Your information above is incorrect.

No offense, but... helping "the community"? You speak as if "the community" is a person. It is not. The "community" is not your client. The HOA corporation is NOT "the community" - at best it is one member of it.

If you are referring to the people living within the project as "the community", I'm sure that those who receive your letters do not appreciate receiving them nor do they appreciate your expectation that they should have to respond back to you. They did not hire you, they did not contract with you.

Once again, Violation letters are sent at the request of the Board of Directors by way of the Rules & Regulations. Anyone buying into a Condominium, Co-op, HOA or mobile home park should be duly informed by their realtor about the nature of living the property. Owners should understand that they will be governed by a Declaration of Condominium, Co-op, HOA or mobile home park and the specific list of rules and regulations that exist. Some properties are more extreme than others in enforcement of Rules & Regulations. Living in such an environment with strict rules & regulations is not for everyone.

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Old 11-03-2012, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,672,404 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suncc49 View Post
Have you considered getting onto the Board or getting to know them?
In my experience the people who complain like this never volunteer to do anything for their community.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:48 PM
 
397 posts, read 491,297 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
In my experience the people who complain like this never volunteer to do anything for their community.
In my experience, motivation to "volunteer" on the HOA Committee has little to do with altruism and helping your community.

If one really wants to help their community, they should forego the HOA meetings and use this time to help people in the community who don't have the luxury of worrying about an HOA.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:05 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,672,404 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE Skeptic View Post
In my experience, motivation to "volunteer" on the HOA Committee has little to do with altruism and helping your community.

If one really wants to help their community, they should forego the HOA meetings and use this time to help people in the community who don't have the luxury of worrying about an HOA.
I agree that we should help our neighbors and friends in need. But that is completely separate from complaining about how an HOA is run, and getting involved to help make it better.

There are those who are willing to do the work necessary to keep the HOA running, and those who won't do anything. Everyone in a community is an equal member of the HOA, yet there are always some who will complain about how it's run, but will not shoulder their part of the load.

It's ok that some don't want to live in an HOA. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But when one chooses to live in an HOA community, they agree to abide by the covenants and rules of that community. If the HOA is not being run properly, then getting involved is the proper alternative.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Fort Payne Alabama
1,069 posts, read 1,471,100 times
Reputation: 2028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I agree that we should help our neighbors and friends in need. But that is completely separate from complaining about how an HOA is run, and getting involved to help make it better.

There are those who are willing to do the work necessary to keep the HOA running, and those who won't do anything. Everyone in a community is an equal member of the HOA, yet there are always some who will complain about how it's run, but will not shoulder their part of the load.

It's ok that some don't want to live in an HOA. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But when one chooses to live in an HOA community, they agree to abide by the covenants and rules of that community. If the HOA is not being run properly, then getting involved is the proper alternative.
The problem with your suggestion Captain Bill is when one becomes involved they then become part of the solution and pretty much lose the right to moan, groan, and complain, not what they had in mind!
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:11 AM
 
397 posts, read 491,297 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I agree that we should help our neighbors and friends in need. But that is completely separate from complaining about how an HOA is run, and getting involved to help make it better.

There are those who are willing to do the work necessary to keep the HOA running, and those who won't do anything. Everyone in a community is an equal member of the HOA, yet there are always some who will complain about how it's run, but will not shoulder their part of the load.

It's ok that some don't want to live in an HOA. Nothing wrong with that at all.

But when one chooses to live in an HOA community, they agree to abide by the covenants and rules of that community. If the HOA is not being run properly, then getting involved is the proper alternative.
Independent of one's participation, HOAs can be very political and enforcement of HOA policy can be inconsistent and a vehicle for harassment.

Some have blamed OP for not reading or understanding the HOA policies before buying their home. I don't think this is fair. Given the prevalance and vague wording of many HOA policies, any one of us could find ourselves being harassed by an over zealous HOA.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,672,404 times
Reputation: 3809
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE Skeptic View Post
Independent of one's participation, HOAs can be very political and enforcement of HOA policy can be inconsistent and a vehicle for harassment.

Some have blamed OP for not reading or understanding the HOA policies before buying their home. I don't think this is fair. Given the prevalance and vague wording of many HOA policies, any one of us could find ourselves being harassed by an over zealous HOA.
The CC&R's should be enforced evenly across the board.

Not reading and understanding the CC&R's would be equivalent to not reading and understanding the home purchase contract. The CC&R's is a contract between homeowner and the HOA, and in Arizona one must sign that they have received and read these documents. When one reads the docs, if they don't understand them, then it's time to ask questions and get answers before completing the purchase. Buyers are given 5 days after receiving the CC&R's in AZ to study them.

So to later claim that one didn't know or understand is not an acceptable excuse. Just as ignorance of the law does not fly in court.

If the board members of an HOA are not performing properly then it's time to get involved. Ranting on an internet forum about HOA's does not solve a problem. It's going to meetings, understanding what is happening, and why, and getting involved is the best way to solve any problem.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Lexington, SC
4,281 posts, read 10,284,194 times
Reputation: 3700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
The CC&R's should be enforced evenly across the board.

Not reading and understanding the CC&R's would be equivalent to not reading and understanding the home purchase contract. The CC&R's is a contract between homeowner and the HOA, and in Arizona one must sign that they have received and read these documents. When one reads the docs, if they don't understand them, then it's time to ask questions and get answers before completing the purchase. Buyers are given 5 days after receiving the CC&R's in AZ to study them.

So to later claim that one didn't know or understand is not an acceptable excuse. Just as ignorance of the law does not fly in court.

If the board members of an HOA are not performing properly then it's time to get involved. Ranting on an internet forum about HOA's does not solve a problem. It's going to meetings, understanding what is happening, and why, and getting involved is the best way to solve any problem.

Well said.
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Old 11-06-2012, 08:16 AM
 
14,253 posts, read 14,738,973 times
Reputation: 13611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
The CC&R's should be enforced evenly across the board.

Not reading and understanding the CC&R's would be equivalent to not reading and understanding the home purchase contract. The CC&R's is a contract between homeowner and the HOA, and in Arizona one must sign that they have received and read these documents. When one reads the docs, if they don't understand them, then it's time to ask questions and get answers before completing the purchase. Buyers are given 5 days after receiving the CC&R's in AZ to study them.

So to later claim that one didn't know or understand is not an acceptable excuse. Just as ignorance of the law does not fly in court.

If the board members of an HOA are not performing properly then it's time to get involved. Ranting on an internet forum about HOA's does not solve a problem. It's going to meetings, understanding what is happening, and why, and getting involved is the best way to solve any problem.
I am an HOA Board member in Arizona. We have open board meetings every two months with a specific forum for homeowners to ask questions, make comments or propose motions. We even have a conference call line for homeowners who cannot make the meeting but want to participate. Even so, we are lucky if we get ten participants at the meetings.

And getting homeowners to run for the board is even harder.

Yet, when something happens that the homeowners don't like, they complain that there is no communication and that the Board is a self-perpetuating cabal. Emails are sent, accusations are made, slanderous comments are also made.

I often wonder why we bother. Maybe we should disband the association, sell the clubhouse, tennis courts and pool for development and distribute the money ..... oh wait .... they don't want that either.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Lexington, SC
4,281 posts, read 10,284,194 times
Reputation: 3700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001 View Post
I am an HOA Board member in Arizona. We have open board meetings every two months with a specific forum for homeowners to ask questions, make comments or propose motions. We even have a conference call line for homeowners who cannot make the meeting but want to participate. Even so, we are lucky if we get ten participants at the meetings.

And getting homeowners to run for the board is even harder.

Yet, when something happens that the homeowners don't like, they complain that there is no communication and that the Board is a self-perpetuating cabal. Emails are sent, accusations are made, slanderous comments are also made.

I often wonder why we bother. Maybe we should disband the association, sell the clubhouse, tennis courts and pool for development and distribute the money ..... oh wait .... they don't want that either.

Well said.
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