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Old 07-24-2012, 08:46 PM
 
Location: MID ATLANTIC
7,606 posts, read 17,658,297 times
Reputation: 8099

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It's been a long time since we've seen 12 pages on a thread in 4 days!

OP, please keep us posted, there's obviously much interest (and rooting) in your situation.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:23 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
I wanted to address recent posts..I'm going to post an update after I get my hubby off to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
OP, I'm glad your friend/attorney has cleaned house; but know this: she, the attorney, is blaming the paralegal but it all boils down to "the buck stops here" - and that's with the attorney. Whatever the paralegal did wrong, the attorney is on the hook for. Her malpractice insurance rate is at risk here. So while she might be trying to rectify your situation, she is also working on her own behalf. I'm not saying that she is not working for you, but know that it is also self-preservation.
You are abosolutely RIGHT! After reviewing the process..the PL highlights any out of the ordinary things for the attorney to look at. She didn't..but ultimately the attorney is responsible. Lawyer after lawyer I have talked to..comes right back to her. They said she should have gone over everything with us prior to closing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz View Post
What the devil is " I did say that..however I found out that the seller changed to their bankruptcy attorney"

We signed a paper stating she was representing both so we thought she did..however she told us yesterday that she was notified right after that letter went out that the bank was using the trustee attorney.
I don't know of any Bank that would change corporate representation for a real estate matter.

This is starting to sound like a Chapter 7 BK with liquidation of personal real estate per instructions of the Trustee of the Federal Bankruptcy Court serving the particular area. Which could also explain the prior sale of the easement for the highway.

I think that's what it was.

ARGH>>>>>>>..PJMAMA...... you have my sympathy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yousah View Post
I wouldn't go back to that attorney.
After our meeting yesterday..I feel the same way. I will post a detail update as to why.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:11 AM
 
4,630 posts, read 7,219,275 times
Reputation: 4740
Okay, now that we have a Trustee attorney identified - it could mean one of two things.

The previous BK7 scenario I laid out previously, or...

The Bank was operating as Trustee of a deceased's estate.

Bank's are often nominated as Trustee of an Estate when an individual doesn't have any family/friends to administrator their estate after they die.

To liquidate an estate, the Trust Department of the Bank will list a property with a realtor for sale.

Either way, you need competent legal representation. I would suggest calling your State's Bar Association for referrals.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
Well..we met with our closing attorney yesterday. I now see the wisdom in everyone's advice as to not using/trusting her. It was interesting. Basically..she admitted liability..and has put her insurance carrier on notice. She depends on her PL to alert her to these things..she didn't..but she should have gone over everything with us anyway and caught it herself. She said that ultimately..it comes to her..not her PL as her agent. HOWEVER..she said her ins would make mincemeat out of us. They were $500/hr attorneys out of Philly who would make us go broke dragging it out in legal fees. She said we could have looked at the title report at closing and backed out of the contract and paid damages. WTF? Closing was over when she slid that folder across the table. Mortgage papers were signed and check handed to our loan officer. I called our loan officer and asked to verify that this was the process that day..she said yes. I said it may go to court..she said I understand. So we feel confident we could win against her.

We did discuss settling with her..and her representing us against the bank. (As some others have mentioned..no case against township) She was making a call to the ethics committee to see if that was possible.

We've decided to not go that route. She clearly gave us some advice that was not in our best interest..but hers. She is a nice person..she said way more than she should have in our meeting really. She has set herself up for us to sue her. She was very emotional about it. She said she didn't know..that we didn't know. That everyone here knows about that big road. That we should have done our due diligence and found out about it. Umm..I don't think that will stand up in court. She said her PL told her we knew. I was like umm..the one you fired yesterday for lying to you and hiding the fact that we were trying to meet with you? You believe her? Of course it would benefit her TO believe her.

She was a few minutes late as she had been out to our property to see what it was impacting. So the first part of the meeting was about how it was not a mowed part..treed etc. That we weren't getting any use out of it anyway. It is high grass now but our kids sled down it in the winter. This pissed me off. NONE of this is relevent to this situation. She was trying to minimize the impact to convince us it wasn't a really a big deal having the roads come through our property.

So..I went back to square one. Started calling attorneys again. Very few litigation ones in a 150 radius..and they aren't interested in suing another attorney. So the search continues....

At this point I have spoken with at least 20 lawyers..and nearly every one of them zeroed right in on who would be liable..OUR ATTORNEY..and they wanted no part of it. So we aren't going to be so quick to let her off the hook. We want to find another lawyer and go after her and the bank. Easier said than done.

Before anyone jumps on me about our own responsiblity of protecting ourselves..I want to say..I was the first one asking where in this process did we miss finding this. The fact is..after much research and meeting with our attorney..we didn't. There was absolutely no way we would have found out without the bank disclosing it..or our lawyer pointing it out. It was only in the title report..and we were never given a copy..until after closing. We can't accept what happened and will fight it.

I really really appreciate everyone's help and best wishes. It helps to talk to others who "get it" and offer good advice. We are outsiders here so I have noone to talk to. I will certainly keep everyone updated.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz View Post
Okay, now that we have a Trustee attorney identified - it could mean one of two things.

The previous BK7 scenario I laid out previously, or...
This I think..it was a nasty divorce. How could this impact our situation?
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:52 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 10,222,320 times
Reputation: 6560
Well, if it were a bank-owend realestate foreclosure (i.e. the previous owners had defaulted on the loan and the bank had seized possession) and they were the ones who failed to disclose that you were actually buying approximately 2 acres, as opposed to the listed 3 acres that is described on your (apparently incorrect??) deed...

there would be "deep pockets" to go after. That might make it easier to get an independent lawyer.

However if it is a personal bankruptcy/divorce type situation (i.e. a person selling it as a shortsale or part of a bankruptcy before actual foreclosure) - it may be a less attractive case to pursue, because the previous owners (personal individuals, not a major bank) probably don't have a lot of assets to go after.

And at this point - what you really want is to have the sale reversed and any good faith money, etc.. returned to you. Not saying its possible, but aim for that and then you can negotiate down.

Because what you're saying is there was material knowledge (buying a 2 acre lot with roads across it, vs. buying a 3 acre lot with only a small road in front) that would have prevented you from buying the property that you were not made aware of.

That is truly what you are saying. Not that "well, I still would have bought it I just would have wanted to pay less".

This is not about "reduced value" it is about the fact that you essentially were lied to (on multiple levels) and so they fradulently sold you something - "bait and switch" essentially. Even if it was just by accident, it is still not legal.

(If you advertise 3 acres with 1 road, you can't sell 2 acres with 3 roads without disclosing that).

You're probably going to need to go to a major metropolitan area and find a lawyer who will work on a contingency (i.e. a piece of the settlement). And they will basically try to destroy your previous lawyer and take her for a LOT. Else of course its not worth their time, as if you don't get a large settlement, their fees will not be covered.

I would look in Philly, or Pittsburgh or Harrisburg, or wherever -and explain the situation and find out if they are willing to work on a % of settlement.

This is not going to be won by a local lawyer at $100/hour. Even if it were, it would probably quickly add up to thousands of dollars even at such a low rate and it doesn't sound like you have a lot of money for an attorney.

good luck to you, really sorry to hear of your problems!
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briolat21 View Post
Well, if it were a bank-owend realestate foreclosure (i.e. the previous owners had defaulted on the loan and the bank had seized possession) and they were the ones who failed to disclose that you were actually buying approximately 2 acres, as opposed to the listed 3 acres that is described on your (apparently incorrect??) deed...

there would be "deep pockets" to go after. That might make it easier to get an independent lawyer.

This is what I'm pretty certain it was. The bank owned the property..it wasn't a short sale. However there was a middle guy..the bankruptcy trustee lawyer. He negoatiated the compensation for the bank with the township..and dispursed the funds to the bank. So they both knew..and failed to disclose. I'm sure hiding behind the..don't have to do disclosure if bankruptcy/foreclosure rule.

And at this point - what you really want is to have the sale reversed and any good faith money, etc.. returned to you. Not saying its possible, but aim for that and then you can negotiate down.

Because what you're saying is there was material knowledge (buying a 2 acre lot with roads across it, vs. buying a 3 acre lot with only a small road in front) that would have prevented you from buying the property that you were not made aware of.

That is truly what you are saying. Not that "well, I still would have bought it I just would have wanted to pay less".

Exactly!!! We don't want to live here..we aren't focused on the money. We found out yesterday..that they actually took 1.8 of the 3 acres. There was no description on the condemnation. The attorney pulled the plan submitted to get specific #. Unbelievable isn't it?

This is not about "reduced value" it is about the fact that you essentially were lied to (on multiple levels) and so they fradulently sold you something - "bait and switch" essentially. Even if it was just by accident, it is still not legal.

You're probably going to need to go to a major metropolitan area and find a lawyer who will work on a contingency (i.e. a piece of the settlement). And they will basically try to destroy your previous lawyer and take her for a LOT. Else of course its not worth their time, as if you don't get a large settlement, their fees will not be covered.

I would look in Philly, or Pittsburgh or Harrisburg, or wherever -and explain the situation and find out if they are willing to work on a % of settlement.

This is not going to be won by a local lawyer at $100/hour. Even if it were, it would probably quickly add up to thousands of dollars even at such a low rate and it doesn't sound like you have a lot of money for an attorney.
Unfortunately..this is looking like our only option. I'm googling attorneys in one of those towns now. We have money to pay an attorney..we don't have money to lose. I would borrow more it if it was a garantee..but can't risk it. We could lose and be stuck with thousands of $ worth of debt. Too risky..we have 3 kids to provide for. I'm still in shock that this is happening.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
Deleted..answered my question.

Last edited by ~Pajama mama~; 07-25-2012 at 08:52 AM..
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:23 AM
 
14,429 posts, read 16,333,385 times
Reputation: 12901
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMoney View Post
It's been a long time since we've seen 12 pages on a thread in 4 days!

OP, please keep us posted, there's obviously much interest (and rooting) in your situation.
OT, but go to the Political Forum if you want action. You can get 12 pages on one thread in less than 1 day.

Last edited by sware2cod; 07-25-2012 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:25 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,177 posts, read 39,280,307 times
Reputation: 40671
I only have 3 pages. I'm set to 40 responses/page.
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