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Old 07-25-2012, 10:31 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 4,139,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post
This had me asking questions. Just got off the phone and here is what I found out. It wasn't a forced sale. It was foreclosed..however..it took place the month after the condemnation. Deed would have still been in the debtors name. When the condemnation compensation happened..the couple was in bankruptcy therefore it went thru the trustee. Who paid the bank who had mortgage/liens against the house. I noticed in the paperwork for everyones condemnation..all was applied to outstanding mortgages if there was one.

So..the bank had knowledge of the condemnation..as well as the trustee who handled the sale to us. They sold us property they KNEW they didn't own. On the mls listing..it stated 3 acres. Who ever gave or approved that info had to have known.

Do you think we are going to be able to go after them?
I really have to wonder what happened here. If you are in the process of being foreclosed on there are laws about not being able to sell off part of your property. Is it any different if it is a government entity? Does anyone here know? Now it should get very confusing, sorry OP. It could be the debtor wasn't legally able to sell off that acre. Oh, please keep us posted. I really want to know how this turns out.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:34 AM
 
4,626 posts, read 7,203,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post
Trying to find out when the check was dated and who the check was actually made out to.
That's not the most important date.

Date of bankruptcy filing is.

With the other dates, then we can determine who had legal control of the property when.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,421,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz View Post
That's not the most important date.

Date of bankruptcy filing is.

With the other dates, then we can determine who had legal control of the property when.
Wow..this is confusing. I called our closing attorney to ask about the foreclosure date. It seems the bankruptcy was filed in 2009 or 2010. It was actually foreclosed in 2010..not 2011. I was wrong. What I saw for deed wasnt the bank being deeded the property..it was the debtor deeded house to bankcruptcy trustee in July 2011. How the hell does that work? If the bank had foreclosed how could the debter deed it over?
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,743 posts, read 31,570,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
Contact the state bar association to find a lawyer willing to litigate this. There is ALWAYS an attorney who will.

You might also want to contact Penn Law School - many times law schools have a clinic for 3rd year students, supervised by a professor.

Penn State
Duquesne
Drexel
Pittsburgh
Villanova
Temple


As the above poster asked about your own title insurance policy - if you didn't purchase one, why not? Was it offered? If you DID purchase it, then your title company should be representing you.
You know this is a highly complicated situation. I wouldn't want a law student arguing this case. She needs to go into the major cities and find an attorney willing to do it.
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,290 posts, read 18,545,587 times
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I see we posted at the same time so perhaps you missed my questions.
This is why I asked if you know for sure that this property was sold.....removed from the original parcel and not just a price paid for an easement.
A few posts here suggest it would only have been an outright sale and that amay or may not be the case

A municipality can use the condemnation procedure to acquire an easement.If that is what was done, you still own it....all 3 acres.
I understand you do not want to spend lots for legal fees so you should be sure just what is what.


"Easement by the government
In the United States, easements may be acquired by the government using its power of "eminent domain" in a "condemnation" proceeding in the courts. Note that in the United States, in accordance with the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, property cannot simply be taken by the government unless the property owner is compensated for the fair market value of what is taken. This is true whether the government acquires full ownership of the property ("fee title") or a lesser property interest, such as an easement."
Easement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,421,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
I see we posted at the same time so perhaps you missed my questions.
This is why I asked if you know for sure that this property was sold.....removed from the original parcel and not just a price paid for an easement.
A few posts here suggest it would only have been an outright sale and that amay or may not be the case
Great question..my lawyer said it was owned but I wanted to be 100% sure since you brought it up. According to the township clerk who handled the condemnation..it is owned.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Florida
18,290 posts, read 18,545,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post
Great question..my lawyer said it was owned but I wanted to be 100% sure since you brought it up. According to the township clerk who handled the condemnation..it is owned.
Along with probably most of the people following this, I wish you all the best.
This ball got dropped by too many
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Needham, MA
6,324 posts, read 9,029,761 times
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This is just a horrible horrible situation. I wish you the best of luck in getting it reconciled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post
Great question..my lawyer said it was owned but I wanted to be 100% sure since you brought it up. According to the township clerk who handled the condemnation..it is owned.
This is very strange. Of course, real estate practices vary from state to state but around here in order to subdivide land you would need to immediately record two deeds with proper property descriptions. Essentially, the old property goes away and two new properties take its place.
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:41 AM
 
4,626 posts, read 7,203,593 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post
Wow..this is confusing. I called our closing attorney to ask about the foreclosure date. It seems the bankruptcy was filed in 2009 or 2010. It was actually foreclosed in 2010..not 2011. I was wrong. What I saw for deed wasnt the bank being deeded the property..it was the debtor deeded house to bankcruptcy trustee in July 2011. How the hell does that work? If the bank had foreclosed how could the debter deed it over?
Short answer. Ch 7 bankruptcy. The Bankruptcy Trustee appointed calls the shots. It is up to this trustee to sell all assets of the filers and pay back the creditors. Secured creditors such as the mortgage holder, IRS are at the top of the list to be paid.

The original mortgage was included in the bankruptcy.

So the Bankruptcy Trustee sees the opportunity to unload part of the parcel for the road. $$ go to the mortgage lender (the bank). But there is still a balance owed. Bankruptcy Trustee is still calling the shots.

House and remaining property are listed for sale by the Bankruptcy Trustee. Property is sold, $$ go to the bank and if anything is left over, to other liens on the property.

Normally, when you are buying a house which is REO - that is actually owned by a bank through foreclosure, liens against the property are paid off before the house is listed for sale. That was the red flag for me when you stated money was dispersed at closing for liens.

So.............who called the shots in all of this?
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Old 07-25-2012, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,421,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz View Post
Short answer. Ch 7 bankruptcy. The Bankruptcy Trustee appointed calls the shots. It is up to this trustee to sell all assets of the filers and pay back the creditors. Secured creditors such as the mortgage holder, IRS are at the top of the list to be paid.

The original mortgage was included in the bankruptcy.

So the Bankruptcy Trustee sees the opportunity to unload part of the parcel for the road. $$ go to the mortgage lender (the bank). But there is still a balance owed. Bankruptcy Trustee is still calling the shots.

House and remaining property are listed for sale by the Bankruptcy Trustee. Property is sold, $$ go to the bank and if anything is left over, to other liens on the property.

Normally, when you are buying a house which is REO - that is actually owned by a bank through foreclosure, liens against the property are paid off before the house is listed for sale. That was the red flag for me when you stated money was dispersed at closing for liens.

So.............who called the shots in all of this?
One more piece of the puzzle. Our realtor said it was a deed in lieu in 2010. Dont know if that changes anything but to answer your question...trustee attorney. holy hell...Ive gotta sue TWO lawyers ???? i need a drink.
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